4 ms·

Isn't it ironic that this is posted on a site that does startup funding and the comments are "please put this on kickstarter" not "please apply for Y Combinator

Isn't it ironic that this is posted on a site that does startup funding and the comments are "please put this on kickstarter" not "please apply for Y Combinator"? Is it possible that Kickstarter will disrupt Y combinator style startup funding? If we (the consumers) can bypass the investors and pay for what we want, why do we need the startup gatekeepers? Obviously this wouldn't work for all startups but a large portion of founders might be better off on kickstarter? Unless of course the advice/mentoring/network effect that Y combinator, et al provide is vital to a startups success. Food for thought.

mdwrigh2 15y ago
I can't imagine the monetary investment from YC is more significant than the advice and mentoring that you get. Raising $20k isn't impossibly hard. Finding the right mentors is.
- raganwald 15y ago
  Off topic, but an old aphorism is, "If you want advice, ask for money. If you want money, ask for advice." In some ways, asking YC for money is a way of asking for advice and constraining YC to prove that they're sincere.
timdorr 15y ago
Kickstarter is for products, YC is for businesses. (More or less, I'm not saying it's black and white)
- david927 15y ago
  Kickstarter is product-focused, YC is founder-focused.
- splatcollision 15y ago
  Ah, but business should be product-based...
  - timClicks 15y ago
    For founders looking at relatively quick exits, they are the product.
  - timdorr 15y ago
    That's certainly true, but the two aren't mutually exclusive. Kickstarter will get you the funds to go out and build a cool product, but it won't tell you how to generate a model that's sustainable, teach you how to go to market, or even tell you if there's an available market at all.
    - jahewson 15y ago
      Exactly. I can imagine a need for "Kickstarter mentors".
    - 6ren 15y ago
      Kickstarter tells you there's no market by not funding your project: it's a MVP. But KS seems hard unless you're already well known.
  - chc 15y ago
    Eh, product-focused, maybe. Being completely based on a single, unproven product is not really a great way to run a business, at least from Y Combinator's viewpoint.
    - davidcann 15y ago
      Isn't that exactly what Y Combinator companies do? They create single, focused, unproven products and try to "prove" them.
      - chc 15y ago
        YC companies very often end up with completely different products than they start out with. This almost never happens with Kickstarters, because those are actually project-based.
- mceachen 15y ago
  Although you can argue that a "product does not make a business," many businesses start off with a single product. Kickstarter is great way to determine if there is commercial viability for an product, but only within the early adopter customer segment -- and that's about it. YC primarily looks for teams they like. The description of the product idea in the application is indicative of the team's ability to communicate (which is critical), and the actual idea may give a glimpse into the judgement of the team, but a good number of teams (including mine) pivoted pretty dramatically during our time in YC. Steve Blank, who spoke to our batch, says that a startup is a temporary organization formed to search for a repeatable and scalable business model. Understanding this, and understanding when to pivot, was one of the most critical teachings made by YC.
hollerith 15y ago
Probably the people who mentioned kickstarter tend to think kickstarter for ideas without large profit potential, and unless you also sell a software-deployment platform (like Microsoft and Apple do) tools for programmers does not IMHO have large profit potential.
- ibdknox 15y ago
  I'm not sure I agree. Textmate made a crap ton of money, companies like JetBrains and DevExpress have made very successful businesses building dev tools. And while you mention MSFT as building a platform, if VS alone can make a billion, even without a platform I suspect you could do quite well.
  - hollerith 15y ago
    when you say that VS can make a billion, I assume you refer to sales revenues. I always thought MSFT spent more money developing their programming tools than they got in revenue (which makes sense for them because more developers for Windows lead to more licensed users of Windows)
  - jamieb 15y ago
    Would you mind me asking how long it took you to develop that demo?
    - ahjones 15y ago
      On Twitter he said it took six days: https://twitter.com/#!/ibdknox/status/190857331238645760 https://twitter.com/#!/ibdknox/status/190857331238645760
brico 15y ago
Kickstarter let's you basically preorder a product that lacks investors. Being a startup investor has become the game rich people love to play. There are people who'll fund anything in return for a small percentage of the company in the hopes it might be the next Google/Facebook/Paypal ... Billionaires don't want to be in the smallprinted section of the forbes-list, they want to be "legends" like Peter Thiel or Andy Bechtolsheim and want their name in the history books
- BerislavLopac 15y ago
  "Kickstarter let's you basically preorder a product that lacks investors." Exactly. But why do you actually need Kickstarter for that?
TeMPOraL 15y ago
> Isn't it ironic that this is posted on a site that does startup funding and the comments are "please put this on kickstarter" not "please apply for Y Combinator"? Why, one can do both :). (eg. Pebble is funded by Kickstarter, but the creators are an YC company) Anyway, the most important thing is: make it happen, make it happen fast, and don't let it become another CodeBubbles - an IDE idea with a video that captured imagination of programers few years ago, but implementation of which is yet to be seen.
- jeffheon 15y ago
  AFAIK Code Bubbles is now Debugger Canvas http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/devlabs/debuggercanvas http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/devlabs/debuggercanvas
  - noahric 15y ago
    Kind of. Code Bubbles inspired a few of us (mostly steven schermerhorn + chris) to write a prototype of it for VS called Codeporium, which was at least part of what made it into debugger canvas. Of course, we didn't do any of the hard work (like getting the debugger working), so I'm not sure how much credit we should get :) Chris probably remembers more about it than I do.
ericingram 15y ago
Iyc

mdwrigh2 15y ago

I can't imagine the monetary investment from YC is more significant than the advice and mentoring that you get. Raising $20k isn't impossibly hard. Finding the right mentors is.

raganwald 15y ago
Off topic, but an old aphorism is, "If you want advice, ask for money. If you want money, ask for advice." In some ways, asking YC for money is a way of asking for advice and constraining YC to prove that they're sincere.

timdorr 15y ago

Kickstarter is for products, YC is for businesses. (More or less, I'm not saying it's black and white)

david927 15y ago
Kickstarter is product-focused, YC is founder-focused.
splatcollision 15y ago
Ah, but business should be product-based...
- timClicks 15y ago
  For founders looking at relatively quick exits, they are the product.
- timdorr 15y ago
  That's certainly true, but the two aren't mutually exclusive. Kickstarter will get you the funds to go out and build a cool product, but it won't tell you how to generate a model that's sustainable, teach you how to go to market, or even tell you if there's an available market at all.
  - jahewson 15y ago
    Exactly. I can imagine a need for "Kickstarter mentors".
  - 6ren 15y ago
    Kickstarter tells you there's no market by not funding your project: it's a MVP. But KS seems hard unless you're already well known.
- chc 15y ago
  Eh, product-focused, maybe. Being completely based on a single, unproven product is not really a great way to run a business, at least from Y Combinator's viewpoint.
  - davidcann 15y ago
    Isn't that exactly what Y Combinator companies do? They create single, focused, unproven products and try to "prove" them.
    - chc 15y ago
      YC companies very often end up with completely different products than they start out with. This almost never happens with Kickstarters, because those are actually project-based.
mceachen 15y ago
Although you can argue that a "product does not make a business," many businesses start off with a single product. Kickstarter is great way to determine if there is commercial viability for an product, but only within the early adopter customer segment -- and that's about it. YC primarily looks for teams they like. The description of the product idea in the application is indicative of the team's ability to communicate (which is critical), and the actual idea may give a glimpse into the judgement of the team, but a good number of teams (including mine) pivoted pretty dramatically during our time in YC. Steve Blank, who spoke to our batch, says that a startup is a temporary organization formed to search for a repeatable and scalable business model. Understanding this, and understanding when to pivot, was one of the most critical teachings made by YC.

hollerith 15y ago

Probably the people who mentioned kickstarter tend to think kickstarter for ideas without large profit potential, and unless you also sell a software-deployment platform (like Microsoft and Apple do) tools for programmers does not IMHO have large profit potential.

ibdknox 15y ago
I'm not sure I agree. Textmate made a crap ton of money, companies like JetBrains and DevExpress have made very successful businesses building dev tools. And while you mention MSFT as building a platform, if VS alone can make a billion, even without a platform I suspect you could do quite well.
- hollerith 15y ago
  when you say that VS can make a billion, I assume you refer to sales revenues. I always thought MSFT spent more money developing their programming tools than they got in revenue (which makes sense for them because more developers for Windows lead to more licensed users of Windows)
- jamieb 15y ago
  Would you mind me asking how long it took you to develop that demo?
  - ahjones 15y ago
    On Twitter he said it took six days: https://twitter.com/#!/ibdknox/status/190857331238645760 https://twitter.com/#!/ibdknox/status/190857331238645760

brico 15y ago

Kickstarter let's you basically preorder a product that lacks investors. Being a startup investor has become the game rich people love to play. There are people who'll fund anything in return for a small percentage of the company in the hopes it might be the next Google/Facebook/Paypal ... Billionaires don't want to be in the smallprinted section of the forbes-list, they want to be "legends" like Peter Thiel or Andy Bechtolsheim and want their name in the history books

BerislavLopac 15y ago
"Kickstarter let's you basically preorder a product that lacks investors." Exactly. But why do you actually need Kickstarter for that?

TeMPOraL 15y ago

> Isn't it ironic that this is posted on a site that does startup funding and the comments are "please put this on kickstarter" not "please apply for Y Combinator"? Why, one can do both :). (eg. Pebble is funded by Kickstarter, but the creators are an YC company) Anyway, the most important thing is: make it happen, make it happen fast, and don't let it become another CodeBubbles - an IDE idea with a video that captured imagination of programers few years ago, but implementation of which is yet to be seen.

jeffheon 15y ago
AFAIK Code Bubbles is now Debugger Canvas http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/devlabs/debuggercanvas http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/devlabs/debuggercanvas
- noahric 15y ago
  Kind of. Code Bubbles inspired a few of us (mostly steven schermerhorn + chris) to write a prototype of it for VS called Codeporium, which was at least part of what made it into debugger canvas. Of course, we didn't do any of the hard work (like getting the debugger working), so I'm not sure how much credit we should get :) Chris probably remembers more about it than I do.

ericingram 15y ago

Iyc