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> It should be obvious: power. But that also means that it doesn't matter what they say, because they'll lie to conceal that this was really a power play, drive

> It should be obvious: power. But that also means that it doesn't matter what they say, because they'll lie to conceal that this was really a power play, driven by petty looking rivalries. Am I the only one who finds these kinds of explanations unconvincing? I don't think anyone knows precisely what was going through Sutskever's mind on Friday, but whenever the best explanation people have for an event is that an obviously very smart person suddenly became very stupid, it gives me the feeling that we don't have all the information.

deleted 3y ago
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norir 3y ago
There is nothing unusual or contradictory about smart people doing stupid things.
- keepamovin 3y ago
  Oh completely agree! And that’s a good point to remember.
throwaway920102 3y ago
No you are not. Because "it should be obvious: ____" is a handwave with zero evidence, it's a projection on the part of the author. Insert power, insert sex, insert greed, insert idealism, insert black and white thinking, insert jealousy, insert naivety, insert ignorance, insert racism, insert nationalism. Take your pick and state it in a highbrow fanciful way and boom you're cookin with gas.
- keepamovin 3y ago
  Are you sure it’s not you projecting with your entire list there? Sex, nationalism… hahaha! :) I only said power. I think it’s often the people who want power but, want to do something not good with it or abuse it, who get upset when their power-seeking is identified as what it is. I understand if “it’s obvious” hand wavy, but your comment, which makes vague assertions that I don’t know without backing it up, could be considered hand wavy. It might even come across as an abusive attempt to silence someone saying something you dislike, by trying to frame the speaker as “ignorant, therefore should not speak.” The obviousness of what I said arises from power being a perennial dynamic of human behavior, which I think your comment does a fair and job of demonstrating hahaha! :)
casualscience 3y ago
Yeah, I find this kind of dialectic extremely annoying. It's basically just a trivial answer. Yes, everyone wants agency, so in some way you can tie everything we do to 'power'. The actual question above was trying to ask what the board wanted the power to do and why they thought Sam was blocking them from doing it. Their letter claims he was dishonest about something, we will see in the coming months why. I'm still very confused as to why Ilya would seemingly orchestrate such a monumental shift in the company, only to claim his 'deep regret' a few days later. It's pretty odd... The main theory that fits for me is that he didn't want the mission to become profit-seeking, and probably Sam played down some of the deals he was making, or didn't mention them at all. Once Sam was removed, presumably pressure from the rank-and-file, the hundreds of people he sees everyday who uprooted their lives for a piece of that profit, turned Ilya away from his more pure convictions... But who knows, this story will be interesting to watch over time.
- keepamovin 3y ago
  That’s a fair criticism. While it’s true that everybody does want “power”, there’s a distinction to be made between the personal agency that we all share (and often rightly seek more of), and the power to which I’m referring here. It’s likely that the first type, of personal power, is included in the other type of power, but what is meant here by “power” is: you get to shape the future and make huge money doing it. Regarding Ilya’s seemingly contradictory behavior, it appears more likely that he wasn’t really orchestrating the coup. Instead, he was a pawn, manipulated by other interests to be the public face of the coup. These interests appealed to his ego and desire for more recognition and power within the company. Ilya’s perceived entitlement to a more significant role probably made him an easy target. So, it’s not accurate to say that Ilya orchestrated the coup. It seems it was orchestrated by other key players on the board, primarily the backers behind the scenes. These backers likely include intelligence and policy security experts fronted by Helen (the AU-UK-China intelligence and security policy wonk axis), and those aligned with military-industrial interests, such as those represented by Tasha (RAND Corporation et al). This coup had probably been planned for a while, with the goal of removing Sam who created obstacles to their plans. They tried to provoke him into a mistake, and when they believed they saw a moment of weakness, they executed their plan. However, the plan failed spectacularly. For obvious reasons this would never probably be widely acknowledged, so it may be written up in some more niche blogs on use letters if anyone cares to do the investigative journalism. As a result, as I previously stated it would be unwise to consider at face value The lies and presented as explanations for the coup, because of the power that is at stake. Moreover, if you wish to gain a clearer understanding, consider the context into which the obvious players are in bedded.
keepamovin 3y ago
It’s good to be to be cautious regarding incomplete information, but at the same time, considered the larger context of what is at stake. Shaping the future of AI might make it likely that powerful interests and an uncommon desire for power, that goes beyond personal agency that everyone wants, is involved.

deleted 3y ago

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norir 3y ago

There is nothing unusual or contradictory about smart people doing stupid things.

keepamovin 3y ago
Oh completely agree! And that’s a good point to remember.

throwaway920102 3y ago

No you are not. Because "it should be obvious: ____" is a handwave with zero evidence, it's a projection on the part of the author. Insert power, insert sex, insert greed, insert idealism, insert black and white thinking, insert jealousy, insert naivety, insert ignorance, insert racism, insert nationalism. Take your pick and state it in a highbrow fanciful way and boom you're cookin with gas.

keepamovin 3y ago
Are you sure it’s not you projecting with your entire list there? Sex, nationalism… hahaha! :) I only said power. I think it’s often the people who want power but, want to do something not good with it or abuse it, who get upset when their power-seeking is identified as what it is. I understand if “it’s obvious” hand wavy, but your comment, which makes vague assertions that I don’t know without backing it up, could be considered hand wavy. It might even come across as an abusive attempt to silence someone saying something you dislike, by trying to frame the speaker as “ignorant, therefore should not speak.” The obviousness of what I said arises from power being a perennial dynamic of human behavior, which I think your comment does a fair and job of demonstrating hahaha! :)

casualscience 3y ago

Yeah, I find this kind of dialectic extremely annoying. It's basically just a trivial answer. Yes, everyone wants agency, so in some way you can tie everything we do to 'power'. The actual question above was trying to ask what the board wanted the power to do and why they thought Sam was blocking them from doing it. Their letter claims he was dishonest about something, we will see in the coming months why. I'm still very confused as to why Ilya would seemingly orchestrate such a monumental shift in the company, only to claim his 'deep regret' a few days later. It's pretty odd... The main theory that fits for me is that he didn't want the mission to become profit-seeking, and probably Sam played down some of the deals he was making, or didn't mention them at all. Once Sam was removed, presumably pressure from the rank-and-file, the hundreds of people he sees everyday who uprooted their lives for a piece of that profit, turned Ilya away from his more pure convictions... But who knows, this story will be interesting to watch over time.

keepamovin 3y ago
That’s a fair criticism. While it’s true that everybody does want “power”, there’s a distinction to be made between the personal agency that we all share (and often rightly seek more of), and the power to which I’m referring here. It’s likely that the first type, of personal power, is included in the other type of power, but what is meant here by “power” is: you get to shape the future and make huge money doing it. Regarding Ilya’s seemingly contradictory behavior, it appears more likely that he wasn’t really orchestrating the coup. Instead, he was a pawn, manipulated by other interests to be the public face of the coup. These interests appealed to his ego and desire for more recognition and power within the company. Ilya’s perceived entitlement to a more significant role probably made him an easy target. So, it’s not accurate to say that Ilya orchestrated the coup. It seems it was orchestrated by other key players on the board, primarily the backers behind the scenes. These backers likely include intelligence and policy security experts fronted by Helen (the AU-UK-China intelligence and security policy wonk axis), and those aligned with military-industrial interests, such as those represented by Tasha (RAND Corporation et al). This coup had probably been planned for a while, with the goal of removing Sam who created obstacles to their plans. They tried to provoke him into a mistake, and when they believed they saw a moment of weakness, they executed their plan. However, the plan failed spectacularly. For obvious reasons this would never probably be widely acknowledged, so it may be written up in some more niche blogs on use letters if anyone cares to do the investigative journalism. As a result, as I previously stated it would be unwise to consider at face value The lies and presented as explanations for the coup, because of the power that is at stake. Moreover, if you wish to gain a clearer understanding, consider the context into which the obvious players are in bedded.

keepamovin 3y ago

It’s good to be to be cautious regarding incomplete information, but at the same time, considered the larger context of what is at stake. Shaping the future of AI might make it likely that powerful interests and an uncommon desire for power, that goes beyond personal agency that everyone wants, is involved.