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> artificially minimizing PR size Not sure I understand the "artificial" part here. There's nothing "artificial" about breaking up your larger changes into sma

> artificially minimizing PR size Not sure I understand the "artificial" part here. There's nothing "artificial" about breaking up your larger changes into smaller PRs. It's just good practice. Helps reviewers who are reviewing the code, and helps the author be more focused with their changes. Even in net new feature development it's a good idea to break up your large changes to something more manageable. Sorry if I'm not understanding, what do you believe the downside to be?

sb8244 3y ago
It's artificial to break up a PR to satisfy the rule of small PRs. Often you need the full context when evaluating a new feature end to end. Or you spend 2 days splitting up a PR into smaller PRs so that a person can review it in 30 minutes instead of 2 hours. I can't say I've ever seen benefit from it both as a reviewer or as a developer, but it could be an effect of different companies and different teams.
- CuriousCosmic 3y ago
  I'm not sure I agree? If your code isn't trivial to compartmentalize changes then that might be a code smell. I'd agree keeping the unified context is preferable but it's probably easier to do that by having developers rebase their changes into discrete commits that can be reviewed one by one.
  - sb8244 3y ago
    It's not necessarily about the units of code, it's about the bigger picture. Let's give a hypothetical situation where you split up a PR by the backend and frontend components, but you have some extra fields and endpoints that are not used in your final product. They accidentally get left in because you miss them. I believe the chance that it would be caught in review is significantly higher in a unified PR review instead of artificially splitting front and back into separate PRs. And if you need to have the 2 PRs open side by side, then why split it up in the first place?
    - CuriousCosmic 3y ago
      > And if you need to have the 2 PRs open side by side, then why split it up in the first place? I agree however I think PR's should be split up. Just not into separate PRs. The solution is to actually start reviewing PRs by commit (you can do this in the PR web interface). Everything is split up and can be reviewed separately but you can still see the final diff and while each discrete unit is reviewable, the greater feature is also still one discrete reviewable item.
      - sb8244 3y ago
        I agree big time with this. Organizing by clean commits is definitely important.
        mock-possum 3y ago
        Why’s that? Do you step through commits diff by diff when reviewing?
        CuriousCosmic 3y ago
        This is actually the intended way of using git. Pick any random mailing list of the lore [1] and select a thread that has [PATCH] in the name to see this in action. I just grabbed a random patchset off of the git mailing list and linked it below [2] to demonstrate this. You'll notice that on top of the overall patchset (equivalent to a PR) having a detailed description (in the coverletter, i.e. PATCH 00/xx), each commit has a descriptive name, message detailing what the changes within do, and signoffs by everyone who contributed to it. Then as each reviewer comes in, they review each individual patch (i.e. commit) separately, replying to the message for that patch. And any high level concerns can be in reply to the coverletter (addressing the entire patchset). As the contributor responds to comments and makes the requested changes, those changes get made per patch/commit via rebasing rather than just added on top. And when they are finished making the revisions, a new v2 patchset is released in reply to the cover letter of the first patchset, now also containing a diff per commit/patch against the previous revision. Then the cycle repeats until everyone is happy. At that point the maintainer will merge the changes into their incubation branch (the git devs call theirs `next`) and after some time has passed, they merge it into master/main and it becomes established history. The worst part of the whole workflow is that it uses email but other than that it is a far preferable reviewing experience to using github's stock pull request workflow. 1. https://lore.kernel.org/ https://lore.kernel.org/ 2. https://lore.kernel.org/git/20231010123847.2777056-1-christian.couder@gmail.com/T/ https://lore.kernel.org/git/20231010123847.2777056-1-christi...
ridiculous_fish 3y ago
What is the advantage of breaking up a large change into multiple small PRs, compared to multiple small independently-reviewable commits as part of a single PR? If a PR introduces a new function that will be used in the next commit, I would much rather see that next commit using git, than hunt for it in the PR queue.
mewpmewp2 3y ago
To me in a lot of cases it seems even as a reviewer, it's harder to understand big picture if someone splits up the PRs. But as a code writer myself, for example, if I am building a new feature, firstly it's really hard for me to know what the whole thing would look like without going through it all and it's probably very iterative process as I'm doing it, so I usually wouldn't be able to split it up or it would very suboptimal to split it up before I've finished everything. Then I would try to split it up as I've finished to appease reviewers, but again, it requires whole lot of creativity to do. Should I try to split up shared component first? Because I surely can't split up whatever is using those shared components. If I do then, people won't see whatever is implementing those shared components so they won't have understanding on why those shared components provide certain functionality etc. Overall it complicates a lot it seems because if I was to do it during my iterative process then I would write a PR, later refactor bunch of it anyway, and I would do it in the order that feels best for me, but wouldn't necessarily be easy to understand for anyone not within it.

sb8244 3y ago

It's artificial to break up a PR to satisfy the rule of small PRs. Often you need the full context when evaluating a new feature end to end. Or you spend 2 days splitting up a PR into smaller PRs so that a person can review it in 30 minutes instead of 2 hours. I can't say I've ever seen benefit from it both as a reviewer or as a developer, but it could be an effect of different companies and different teams.

CuriousCosmic 3y ago
I'm not sure I agree? If your code isn't trivial to compartmentalize changes then that might be a code smell. I'd agree keeping the unified context is preferable but it's probably easier to do that by having developers rebase their changes into discrete commits that can be reviewed one by one.
- sb8244 3y ago
  It's not necessarily about the units of code, it's about the bigger picture. Let's give a hypothetical situation where you split up a PR by the backend and frontend components, but you have some extra fields and endpoints that are not used in your final product. They accidentally get left in because you miss them. I believe the chance that it would be caught in review is significantly higher in a unified PR review instead of artificially splitting front and back into separate PRs. And if you need to have the 2 PRs open side by side, then why split it up in the first place?
  - CuriousCosmic 3y ago
    > And if you need to have the 2 PRs open side by side, then why split it up in the first place? I agree however I think PR's should be split up. Just not into separate PRs. The solution is to actually start reviewing PRs by commit (you can do this in the PR web interface). Everything is split up and can be reviewed separately but you can still see the final diff and while each discrete unit is reviewable, the greater feature is also still one discrete reviewable item.
    - sb8244 3y ago
      I agree big time with this. Organizing by clean commits is definitely important.
      - mock-possum 3y ago
        Why’s that? Do you step through commits diff by diff when reviewing?
        CuriousCosmic 3y ago
        This is actually the intended way of using git. Pick any random mailing list of the lore [1] and select a thread that has [PATCH] in the name to see this in action. I just grabbed a random patchset off of the git mailing list and linked it below [2] to demonstrate this. You'll notice that on top of the overall patchset (equivalent to a PR) having a detailed description (in the coverletter, i.e. PATCH 00/xx), each commit has a descriptive name, message detailing what the changes within do, and signoffs by everyone who contributed to it. Then as each reviewer comes in, they review each individual patch (i.e. commit) separately, replying to the message for that patch. And any high level concerns can be in reply to the coverletter (addressing the entire patchset). As the contributor responds to comments and makes the requested changes, those changes get made per patch/commit via rebasing rather than just added on top. And when they are finished making the revisions, a new v2 patchset is released in reply to the cover letter of the first patchset, now also containing a diff per commit/patch against the previous revision. Then the cycle repeats until everyone is happy. At that point the maintainer will merge the changes into their incubation branch (the git devs call theirs `next`) and after some time has passed, they merge it into master/main and it becomes established history. The worst part of the whole workflow is that it uses email but other than that it is a far preferable reviewing experience to using github's stock pull request workflow. 1. https://lore.kernel.org/ https://lore.kernel.org/ 2. https://lore.kernel.org/git/20231010123847.2777056-1-christian.couder@gmail.com/T/ https://lore.kernel.org/git/20231010123847.2777056-1-christi...

ridiculous_fish 3y ago

What is the advantage of breaking up a large change into multiple small PRs, compared to multiple small independently-reviewable commits as part of a single PR? If a PR introduces a new function that will be used in the next commit, I would much rather see that next commit using git, than hunt for it in the PR queue.

mewpmewp2 3y ago

To me in a lot of cases it seems even as a reviewer, it's harder to understand big picture if someone splits up the PRs. But as a code writer myself, for example, if I am building a new feature, firstly it's really hard for me to know what the whole thing would look like without going through it all and it's probably very iterative process as I'm doing it, so I usually wouldn't be able to split it up or it would very suboptimal to split it up before I've finished everything. Then I would try to split it up as I've finished to appease reviewers, but again, it requires whole lot of creativity to do. Should I try to split up shared component first? Because I surely can't split up whatever is using those shared components. If I do then, people won't see whatever is implementing those shared components so they won't have understanding on why those shared components provide certain functionality etc. Overall it complicates a lot it seems because if I was to do it during my iterative process then I would write a PR, later refactor bunch of it anyway, and I would do it in the order that feels best for me, but wouldn't necessarily be easy to understand for anyone not within it.