4 ms·

I hope that lawsuit gets laughed right out of the court... what does that have to do with freedom of speech? I'm sure Truth Social, 4chan and other online porta

I hope that lawsuit gets laughed right out of the court... what does that have to do with freedom of speech? I'm sure Truth Social, 4chan and other online porta-pottys are still allowed to exist and they're still allowed to show ads from whoever wants to buy ads on there... just like X is still allowed to do.

ggm 3y ago
Given that Twitter/X is a private, contractual space (you see T&C even if you click through) which routinely implements the function of editor, and thus has an editorial even if the owner is in denial.. I think it fails at the door of a free speech test because free speech in law in the US is about Government restrictions on public speech. so 1) the body in question is not a government 2) the space in question is probably not a public space in any real sense 3) because of 1) and 2) "free speech" is the wrong basis to complain about behaviours on this channel. He chose to go to law in the US. He views the world through a US lens. Other jurisdictions might impose other expectations and requirements. Arguably on a duck test Twitter/X "is" some kind of public speech commons. A very odd one, and a trans-national question. But I would expect a competent US legal team to tell Musk to insert his <part> in some <orifice> and <epithet> away. BTW IANAL and I am not trying to play one. If a real L decides to tell me how I'm wrong I'd be delighted to be schooled.
robomartin 3y ago
> I hope that lawsuit gets laughed right out of the court You have no clue what Media Matters did. Do you?
- elkos 3y ago
  What did they do?
  - robomartin 3y ago
    https://static.texastribune.org/media/files/3428af84caea0c21b620498b06a7414e/X%20lawsuit%20media%20matters.pdf https://static.texastribune.org/media/files/3428af84caea0c21...
    - two_handfuls 3y ago
      Analysis of the lawsuit: https://www.aol.com/legal-critics-blast-elon-musk-202350508.html?ref=biztoc.com https://www.aol.com/legal-critics-blast-elon-musk-202350508.... Key paragraph: “X does not appear to dispute the fact that X has monetized extremist content or that the brands’ ads ran beside it.”
      - robomartin 3y ago
        That's not the key at all. The allegation (until proven in court to the required legal standard) is that Media Matters worked hard to manipulate X to fit a narrative. They created a false narrative and drove it hard in a campaign designed to cause financial and reputation harm to both X and Musk. Some of what is being alleged is the equivalent of taking something that is several standard deviations from the mean and claiming this is the mean. In paragraph 35: "35. Media Matters also omitted and made no attempt to clarify the rarity of these pairings. The representation put forth by Media Matters constituted 0.0000009090909 percent of impressions served on the day in question. Most or all of these pairings were not seen by literally anyone besides Media Matters’ own manipulated account, and no authentic user of the platform has been confirmed to have seen any of these pairings." They created an account to follow extremists and brands. They manipulated this account until they got screenshots they could publish to attack X and Musk. This, if proven to be the case in a court of law, should be criminal if it isn't. Look at it a different way: Would you be OK with someone doing that to you? Making a concerted and calculated effort to damage your career and person with false and deeply distorted allegations? Would that be OK? I hope you say "No, it would not". And that's the point here. Society would absolutely crumble under the pressure of such things if permitted to permeate our culture and information sources without consequence. Nothing good comes from anyone, individual or companies, behaving in this manner. As I have stated multiple times now, these are allegations. They have to pass the test of the legal system. That's the correct venue until we cease to be civilized. Should they allegations prove to be true, Media Matters, the people responsible and external actors and organizations that participated in any way or jumped on the bandwagon to multiply the damage should pay dearly for their actions. Society should not tolerate such behavior. It is destructive in the worst possible way. And, at the limit, it can only lead to violence and the destruction of the tenuous social fabric that holds populations together. Let the courts look at this and decide. That's the way a civilized society behaves. Legal critics don't matter. If it were up to them the entire Biden and Trump (and other) families would be rotting in jail right now. That's how much their "analysis" matters. Zero.

ggm 3y ago

Given that Twitter/X is a private, contractual space (you see T&C even if you click through) which routinely implements the function of editor, and thus has an editorial even if the owner is in denial.. I think it fails at the door of a free speech test because free speech in law in the US is about Government restrictions on public speech. so 1) the body in question is not a government 2) the space in question is probably not a public space in any real sense 3) because of 1) and 2) "free speech" is the wrong basis to complain about behaviours on this channel. He chose to go to law in the US. He views the world through a US lens. Other jurisdictions might impose other expectations and requirements. Arguably on a duck test Twitter/X "is" some kind of public speech commons. A very odd one, and a trans-national question. But I would expect a competent US legal team to tell Musk to insert his <part> in some <orifice> and <epithet> away. BTW IANAL and I am not trying to play one. If a real L decides to tell me how I'm wrong I'd be delighted to be schooled.

robomartin 3y ago

> I hope that lawsuit gets laughed right out of the court You have no clue what Media Matters did. Do you?

elkos 3y ago
What did they do?
- robomartin 3y ago
  https://static.texastribune.org/media/files/3428af84caea0c21b620498b06a7414e/X%20lawsuit%20media%20matters.pdf https://static.texastribune.org/media/files/3428af84caea0c21...
  - two_handfuls 3y ago
    Analysis of the lawsuit: https://www.aol.com/legal-critics-blast-elon-musk-202350508.html?ref=biztoc.com https://www.aol.com/legal-critics-blast-elon-musk-202350508.... Key paragraph: “X does not appear to dispute the fact that X has monetized extremist content or that the brands’ ads ran beside it.”
    - robomartin 3y ago
      That's not the key at all. The allegation (until proven in court to the required legal standard) is that Media Matters worked hard to manipulate X to fit a narrative. They created a false narrative and drove it hard in a campaign designed to cause financial and reputation harm to both X and Musk. Some of what is being alleged is the equivalent of taking something that is several standard deviations from the mean and claiming this is the mean. In paragraph 35: "35. Media Matters also omitted and made no attempt to clarify the rarity of these pairings. The representation put forth by Media Matters constituted 0.0000009090909 percent of impressions served on the day in question. Most or all of these pairings were not seen by literally anyone besides Media Matters’ own manipulated account, and no authentic user of the platform has been confirmed to have seen any of these pairings." They created an account to follow extremists and brands. They manipulated this account until they got screenshots they could publish to attack X and Musk. This, if proven to be the case in a court of law, should be criminal if it isn't. Look at it a different way: Would you be OK with someone doing that to you? Making a concerted and calculated effort to damage your career and person with false and deeply distorted allegations? Would that be OK? I hope you say "No, it would not". And that's the point here. Society would absolutely crumble under the pressure of such things if permitted to permeate our culture and information sources without consequence. Nothing good comes from anyone, individual or companies, behaving in this manner. As I have stated multiple times now, these are allegations. They have to pass the test of the legal system. That's the correct venue until we cease to be civilized. Should they allegations prove to be true, Media Matters, the people responsible and external actors and organizations that participated in any way or jumped on the bandwagon to multiply the damage should pay dearly for their actions. Society should not tolerate such behavior. It is destructive in the worst possible way. And, at the limit, it can only lead to violence and the destruction of the tenuous social fabric that holds populations together. Let the courts look at this and decide. That's the way a civilized society behaves. Legal critics don't matter. If it were up to them the entire Biden and Trump (and other) families would be rotting in jail right now. That's how much their "analysis" matters. Zero.