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>How’s firefox these days? Surviving but continues to bleed users. https://data.firefox.com/dashboard/user-activity https://data.firefox.com/dashboard/user-ac

by e2le 3y ago

>How’s firefox these days? Surviving but continues to bleed users. https://data.firefox.com/dashboard/user-activity https://data.firefox.com/dashboard/user-activity

robswc 3y ago
I would use Firefox, if not for Mozilla.
- kbenson 3y ago
  And instead you use what? And why is that better or worse in specific ways?
  - robswc 3y ago
    I just don't like Mozilla, as a company, for many reasons. The main ones being: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitchell_Baker#Negative_salary-achievements_correlation_controversy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitchell_Baker#Negative_salary... The pay wouldn't be so egregious if it wasn't a constant pattern of pay raises, despite by their own stats, losing MAU and revenue. They also laid off 250 people (which is much more than $5MM, any way you cut it) but it seems in bad taste to give the CEO a raise in the same year. And: https://blog.mozilla.org/en/ https://blog.mozilla.org/en/ The fact that they're leaning so much into political activism. On their homepage they're promoting a journalist involved in some misinformation controversy: https://web.archive.org/web/20220928230910/https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/06/02/johnny-depp-trial-creators-influencers/ https://web.archive.org/web/20220928230910/https://www.washi... The journalist has blamed all this on "editors" -- so we'll never know _who_ exactly did the stealth edits and lied about contacting for comment. In any case, it is pretty ironic, given the CEO of Mozilla seems to think we need more than de-platforming to combat "misinformation": https://blog.mozilla.org/en/mozilla/we-need-more-than-deplatforming/ https://blog.mozilla.org/en/mozilla/we-need-more-than-deplat... Not a fan of statements that creep into invasions of privacy from a supposedly privacy focused browser. So, to sum it up; Wild executive pay for poor performance and too much political activism (that I tend to not agree with) for a web browser.
    - kbenson 3y ago
      Those are all valid reasons for not liking Mozilla. What do you use instead then?
      - robswc 3y ago
        Safari and Brave
        kbenson 3y ago
        Fairly good choices from what I understand (although I'm not sure I would consider Safari is a good alternative for someone with complaints about corporate pay and structure, even if that was a concern of yours I suspect you don't have much of a choice on the device you're using it on). For me, one of the most important reasons to use Firefox is to support one of the few remaining alternate browser implementations. Sure, Chrome and Safari and Edge have all likely diverged to a degree since their shared ancestry (which really wasn't that long ago), but I suspect they're far more similar underneath than different. I would prefer they not be political (but I can see how they get mixed up, as leaning in heavy on privacy is necessarily political in some ways, such as when it involves opinions of nations that disagree, and then there are probably some at he org that want to push in what they see as a similar direction on other topics), but I don't really care about the pay of the CEO in comparison to the vital importance I think heterogeneity in the actual engines browsers use is for many reasons.
        robswc 3y ago
        I totally agree its important, so I hope it doesn't go the way of Netscape. If they focused only on privacy, that would be fine (since its advertised as such). It really wasn't one issue or another that caused me to abandon it, rather just reading post after post from the org about how they're tackling issue X, Y or Z. I also don't care about the CEO's comp either _unless_ the business is just... sucking... for lack of a better word. When they let go of 250 people and then bump the CEO's salary by nearly 50%, it just looks a little self-serving. If Brave or Safari end up sucking enough I look into trying another browser again, I'll give FF a shot. I used it from about 2008 to 2020.
- 28304283409234 3y ago
  How is Mozilla worse than Google?
  - robswc 3y ago
    I don't use Chrome. I just don't agree with the political activism and business decisions of Mozilla.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
kbenson 3y ago
I wonder how much of that is user aging out of active usage for one reason or another (retirement, switching to a tablet from a desktop, etc) and how much of it is people switching (and how much of that switching is to something newer and small (e.g. not Safari, Edge, etc).
smusamashah 3y ago
It is definitely going to go back up in June. I don't use Firefox now, it's now a good experience when compared to Chrome but will definitely switch if that's how I get my clean web browsing back.

by e2le 3y ago

>How’s firefox these days? Surviving but continues to bleed users. https://data.firefox.com/dashboard/user-activity https://data.firefox.com/dashboard/user-activity

robswc 3y ago

I would use Firefox, if not for Mozilla.

kbenson 3y ago
And instead you use what? And why is that better or worse in specific ways?
- robswc 3y ago
  I just don't like Mozilla, as a company, for many reasons. The main ones being: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitchell_Baker#Negative_salary-achievements_correlation_controversy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitchell_Baker#Negative_salary... The pay wouldn't be so egregious if it wasn't a constant pattern of pay raises, despite by their own stats, losing MAU and revenue. They also laid off 250 people (which is much more than $5MM, any way you cut it) but it seems in bad taste to give the CEO a raise in the same year. And: https://blog.mozilla.org/en/ https://blog.mozilla.org/en/ The fact that they're leaning so much into political activism. On their homepage they're promoting a journalist involved in some misinformation controversy: https://web.archive.org/web/20220928230910/https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/06/02/johnny-depp-trial-creators-influencers/ https://web.archive.org/web/20220928230910/https://www.washi... The journalist has blamed all this on "editors" -- so we'll never know _who_ exactly did the stealth edits and lied about contacting for comment. In any case, it is pretty ironic, given the CEO of Mozilla seems to think we need more than de-platforming to combat "misinformation": https://blog.mozilla.org/en/mozilla/we-need-more-than-deplatforming/ https://blog.mozilla.org/en/mozilla/we-need-more-than-deplat... Not a fan of statements that creep into invasions of privacy from a supposedly privacy focused browser. So, to sum it up; Wild executive pay for poor performance and too much political activism (that I tend to not agree with) for a web browser.
  - kbenson 3y ago
    Those are all valid reasons for not liking Mozilla. What do you use instead then?
    - robswc 3y ago
      Safari and Brave
      - kbenson 3y ago
        Fairly good choices from what I understand (although I'm not sure I would consider Safari is a good alternative for someone with complaints about corporate pay and structure, even if that was a concern of yours I suspect you don't have much of a choice on the device you're using it on). For me, one of the most important reasons to use Firefox is to support one of the few remaining alternate browser implementations. Sure, Chrome and Safari and Edge have all likely diverged to a degree since their shared ancestry (which really wasn't that long ago), but I suspect they're far more similar underneath than different. I would prefer they not be political (but I can see how they get mixed up, as leaning in heavy on privacy is necessarily political in some ways, such as when it involves opinions of nations that disagree, and then there are probably some at he org that want to push in what they see as a similar direction on other topics), but I don't really care about the pay of the CEO in comparison to the vital importance I think heterogeneity in the actual engines browsers use is for many reasons.
        robswc 3y ago
        I totally agree its important, so I hope it doesn't go the way of Netscape. If they focused only on privacy, that would be fine (since its advertised as such). It really wasn't one issue or another that caused me to abandon it, rather just reading post after post from the org about how they're tackling issue X, Y or Z. I also don't care about the CEO's comp either _unless_ the business is just... sucking... for lack of a better word. When they let go of 250 people and then bump the CEO's salary by nearly 50%, it just looks a little self-serving. If Brave or Safari end up sucking enough I look into trying another browser again, I'll give FF a shot. I used it from about 2008 to 2020.
28304283409234 3y ago
How is Mozilla worse than Google?
- robswc 3y ago
  I don't use Chrome. I just don't agree with the political activism and business decisions of Mozilla.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]

kbenson 3y ago

I wonder how much of that is user aging out of active usage for one reason or another (retirement, switching to a tablet from a desktop, etc) and how much of it is people switching (and how much of that switching is to something newer and small (e.g. not Safari, Edge, etc).

smusamashah 3y ago

It is definitely going to go back up in June. I don't use Firefox now, it's now a good experience when compared to Chrome but will definitely switch if that's how I get my clean web browsing back.