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I don’t think the board is under any pressure. If they don’t do anything else they just need the employees to fold on their threat to resign. Even if the employ

I don’t think the board is under any pressure. If they don’t do anything else they just need the employees to fold on their threat to resign. Even if the employees resign, ChatGPT is still running and there are lots of people willing to take the defecting employees spots. The only thing they are pressured on is to fill in the story for the media point of view which is irrelevant to the actual functioning of OpenAI.

jacquesm 3y ago
> I don’t think the board is under any pressure. Ok, you have a higher threshold for the use of the word pressure than I do. > If they don’t do anything else they just need the employees to fold on their threat to resign. Even if the employees resign, ChatGPT is still running and there are lots of people willing to take the defecting employees spots. I wouldn't be so sure of that. > The only thing they are pressured on is to fill in the story for the media point of view which is irrelevant to the actual functioning of OpenAI. Their investors, employees and donors might disagree with that. Want to bet that Emmet Shear won't last the week?
- 15457345234 3y ago
  > I wouldn't be so sure of that. Given that a bunch of the staff are acting like they're Heavens Gate members you also expect them to sabotage it? Or literally have a flavor-aid session in the office? > Their investors, employees and donors might disagree with that. Nobody wants to invest in a personality cult that's sworn an oath of fealty to one guy, dude. That's basically flushing money down the toilet, as this fiasco demonstrates. These lunatics are ready to sacrifice their children on twitter. You cannot work with people like that!
  - ben_w 3y ago
    > Nobody wants to invest in a personality cult that's sworn an oath of fealty to one guy, dude. That's basically flushing money down the toilet, as this fiasco demonstrates. Are you aware that Microsoft and Salesforce CEOs have both offered to hire any OpenAI employees who want to switch boat, while Nvidia CEO and Meta's FAIR team have both made similar but slightly lesser "call me" offers to all of them? https://cointelegraph.com/news/microsoft-salesforce-nvidia-artificial-intelligence-swoop-hire-open-ai-employees-walkout-threats-increase-sam-altman https://cointelegraph.com/news/microsoft-salesforce-nvidia-a... > These lunatics are ready to sacrifice their children on twitter. You cannot work with people like that! ???
    - 15457345234 3y ago
      > made similar but slightly lesser "call me" offers to all of them Sure, it's in their interest to break up a unified bloc of talent. Doesn't mean they genuinely want them. > ??? The behaviour demonstrated by many of the staff on twitter is, for want of a better word, unhinged. Odd declarations of loyalty. 4am posts. Retweeting hearts. Acting very 'ride or die.' It's weird.
      - ben_w 3y ago
        > Sure, it's in their interest to break up a unified bloc of talent. Doesn't mean they genuinely want them. Doesn't fit. In the scenario where they're all thinking that, nobody has to follow up with the same offer after the first person says it. > The behaviour demonstrated by many of the staff on twitter is, for want of a better word, unhinged. Odd declarations of loyalty. 4am posts. Retweeting hearts. Acting very 'ride or die.' It's weird. How is any of that "sacrifice their children on twitter"? I mean, jeez, this is major drama even for the rest of the tech community — this whole thing is even front-page on the BBC news site as I write — of course the people who work there are going to say things on Twitter.
        15457345234 3y ago
        > nobody has to follow up with the same offer Yes, different companies have to follow up with the same offer in order to break up the talent bloc. Otherwise the bloc will move en-masse to one firm. > How is any of that "sacrifice their children on twitter"? It's called hyperbole
        ben_w 3y ago
        > Yes, different companies have to follow up with the same offer in order to break up the talent bloc. Otherwise the bloc will move en-masse to one firm. Or just… not hire all of them. Much easier. And in the scenario where Microsoft, Salesforce, NVIDIA, and Meta actually think the OpenAI staff are mad (rather than the more plausible scenario where they think the OpenAI board is mad and are looking for a big pile of skilled proven talent that already know each other and can work well together on big projects), the only sane response would have been "not only don't hire them, don't offer them jobs, what are you even thinking this is the real world we don't do things like the script of a Marvel film". > It's called hyperbole It makes you look like the mad one.
- DonHopkins 3y ago
  >> If they don’t do anything else they just need the employees to fold on their threat to resign. Even if the employees resign, ChatGPT is still running and there are lots of people willing to take the defecting employees spots. >I wouldn't be so sure of that. What about all those people who just pivoted from web3 to ai?
- babberman 3y ago
  I am not going to bet against that. There are only two possible outcomes and neither has Emmet as a CEO. 1, Sam comes back and thus obviously Emmet leaves. 2, Sam does not come back and OAI just dissolves into being a series of drawn out investor lawsuits, something Emmet probably don't want to get involved in.
flappyeagle 3y ago
These words are gonna get ate one way or another. There is no outcome where the current board wins. Emmet is already threatening the board with resignation unless they provide evidence of wrongdoing [1]. Which they don't have, because they would have revealed it already. They are empty shirts. [1] https://x.com/emilychangtv/status/1727020834005700914?s=20 https://x.com/emilychangtv/status/1727020834005700914?s=20
- righthand 3y ago
  Why? The board announced the removal of a CEO which they have the power to do. It upset a bunch of employees who liked the CEO. The board is in search of a new CEO. OpenAI’s valuation isn’t because Sam Altman is worth $90B it’s the tech. The tech is fine. Investors have no reason to worry about their investment in the tech. The people under pressure are Sam Altman trying to reclaim his job he was fired from and Satya Nadella who is running a campaign to eat OpenAI. None of that is related to the functioning tech of OpenAI, all of it is related to the drama of what happened. Drama is not equal to money. I was sad when my favorite pet died too, but then eventually you get a new pet that’s just as good as a Worldcoin guy, maybe better.
  - gjsman-1000 3y ago
    According to Stratechery, Microsoft does not just have the rights to use the source code and model weights for GPT-3.5 and GPT-4, but a clause saying that Microsoft could not use the models as foundations for their own projects was recently removed. > Investors have no reason to worry about their investment in the tech. If Stratechery is correct, this means that if Microsoft successfully poaches Sam Altman and friends, and vacuums OpenAI clean of talent, they will even be able to use the actual GPT-4 to build a Microsoft GPT-5. That should make investors sweat. If you lose the people and (possibly) the technology, what's left?
    - himaraya 3y ago
      Source? Ben didn't read his cited source in his article yesterday.
MidnightSpike 3y ago
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spaceman_2020 3y ago
Good luck keeping those employees around even if they all decide to fold. These folks are being flooded with offers. Why would they work for an organization that doesn't care what 95% of them want?
- otteromkram 3y ago
  Why keep them around when there are hordes of qualified, recently laid-off workers ready to take their spot? And, not every person from OpenAI is getting flooded with offers. Maybe a few key scientists/developers. If anything, putting OpenAI on their resume might get workers preferential treatment for an initial interview. Maybe.
- righthand 3y ago
  Why would I jump ship for some lesser tech when OpenAI has everything I love working on?
somedude895 3y ago
> there are lots of people willing to take the defecting employees spots. Even 20% of employees leaving a company simultaneously is catastrophic. I think you're underestimating the effects here.
- jacquesm 3y ago
  They might be willing to take the spots, but given that OpenAI has been vacuuming up all of the real talent they could find those surely aren't going to be in the same class as the team that they already have.
- righthand 3y ago
  No I’m not, the effects are most likely short term snafu.
yokoprime 3y ago
Even if only 1/4 of the people threating to resign, resigns, its still like 20% of the company leaving abruptly without any sort of handover. They might keep the light on for chatgpt and the API's, but its going to blunt growth and re-hiring isn't done in a heartbeat. You need to vet, test and onboard new employees. You're looking at a setback of at least 9-12 months of growth and research
bostonsre 3y ago
It's one of the most innovative and impactful companies in a long time. I'm sure they'll be able to run gpt4, but good luck delivering gpt 5 (or 6 depending on how far along 5 is) when you lost entire teams that dreamt up and built previous iterations.
canes123456 3y ago
Even if all the employees don’t quit, losing even a quarter would be devastating. They will have a reputation as a shit show and lose all the best people to anthropic, Microsoft and google. They have the best product right now but everything improving so quickly means they will get left behind.

jacquesm 3y ago

> I don’t think the board is under any pressure. Ok, you have a higher threshold for the use of the word pressure than I do. > If they don’t do anything else they just need the employees to fold on their threat to resign. Even if the employees resign, ChatGPT is still running and there are lots of people willing to take the defecting employees spots. I wouldn't be so sure of that. > The only thing they are pressured on is to fill in the story for the media point of view which is irrelevant to the actual functioning of OpenAI. Their investors, employees and donors might disagree with that. Want to bet that Emmet Shear won't last the week?

15457345234 3y ago
> I wouldn't be so sure of that. Given that a bunch of the staff are acting like they're Heavens Gate members you also expect them to sabotage it? Or literally have a flavor-aid session in the office? > Their investors, employees and donors might disagree with that. Nobody wants to invest in a personality cult that's sworn an oath of fealty to one guy, dude. That's basically flushing money down the toilet, as this fiasco demonstrates. These lunatics are ready to sacrifice their children on twitter. You cannot work with people like that!
- ben_w 3y ago
  > Nobody wants to invest in a personality cult that's sworn an oath of fealty to one guy, dude. That's basically flushing money down the toilet, as this fiasco demonstrates. Are you aware that Microsoft and Salesforce CEOs have both offered to hire any OpenAI employees who want to switch boat, while Nvidia CEO and Meta's FAIR team have both made similar but slightly lesser "call me" offers to all of them? https://cointelegraph.com/news/microsoft-salesforce-nvidia-artificial-intelligence-swoop-hire-open-ai-employees-walkout-threats-increase-sam-altman https://cointelegraph.com/news/microsoft-salesforce-nvidia-a... > These lunatics are ready to sacrifice their children on twitter. You cannot work with people like that! ???
  - 15457345234 3y ago
    > made similar but slightly lesser "call me" offers to all of them Sure, it's in their interest to break up a unified bloc of talent. Doesn't mean they genuinely want them. > ??? The behaviour demonstrated by many of the staff on twitter is, for want of a better word, unhinged. Odd declarations of loyalty. 4am posts. Retweeting hearts. Acting very 'ride or die.' It's weird.
    - ben_w 3y ago
      > Sure, it's in their interest to break up a unified bloc of talent. Doesn't mean they genuinely want them. Doesn't fit. In the scenario where they're all thinking that, nobody has to follow up with the same offer after the first person says it. > The behaviour demonstrated by many of the staff on twitter is, for want of a better word, unhinged. Odd declarations of loyalty. 4am posts. Retweeting hearts. Acting very 'ride or die.' It's weird. How is any of that "sacrifice their children on twitter"? I mean, jeez, this is major drama even for the rest of the tech community — this whole thing is even front-page on the BBC news site as I write — of course the people who work there are going to say things on Twitter.
      - 15457345234 3y ago
        > nobody has to follow up with the same offer Yes, different companies have to follow up with the same offer in order to break up the talent bloc. Otherwise the bloc will move en-masse to one firm. > How is any of that "sacrifice their children on twitter"? It's called hyperbole
        ben_w 3y ago
        > Yes, different companies have to follow up with the same offer in order to break up the talent bloc. Otherwise the bloc will move en-masse to one firm. Or just… not hire all of them. Much easier. And in the scenario where Microsoft, Salesforce, NVIDIA, and Meta actually think the OpenAI staff are mad (rather than the more plausible scenario where they think the OpenAI board is mad and are looking for a big pile of skilled proven talent that already know each other and can work well together on big projects), the only sane response would have been "not only don't hire them, don't offer them jobs, what are you even thinking this is the real world we don't do things like the script of a Marvel film". > It's called hyperbole It makes you look like the mad one.
DonHopkins 3y ago
>> If they don’t do anything else they just need the employees to fold on their threat to resign. Even if the employees resign, ChatGPT is still running and there are lots of people willing to take the defecting employees spots. >I wouldn't be so sure of that. What about all those people who just pivoted from web3 to ai?
babberman 3y ago
I am not going to bet against that. There are only two possible outcomes and neither has Emmet as a CEO. 1, Sam comes back and thus obviously Emmet leaves. 2, Sam does not come back and OAI just dissolves into being a series of drawn out investor lawsuits, something Emmet probably don't want to get involved in.

flappyeagle 3y ago

These words are gonna get ate one way or another. There is no outcome where the current board wins. Emmet is already threatening the board with resignation unless they provide evidence of wrongdoing [1]. Which they don't have, because they would have revealed it already. They are empty shirts. [1] https://x.com/emilychangtv/status/1727020834005700914?s=20 https://x.com/emilychangtv/status/1727020834005700914?s=20

righthand 3y ago
Why? The board announced the removal of a CEO which they have the power to do. It upset a bunch of employees who liked the CEO. The board is in search of a new CEO. OpenAI’s valuation isn’t because Sam Altman is worth $90B it’s the tech. The tech is fine. Investors have no reason to worry about their investment in the tech. The people under pressure are Sam Altman trying to reclaim his job he was fired from and Satya Nadella who is running a campaign to eat OpenAI. None of that is related to the functioning tech of OpenAI, all of it is related to the drama of what happened. Drama is not equal to money. I was sad when my favorite pet died too, but then eventually you get a new pet that’s just as good as a Worldcoin guy, maybe better.
- gjsman-1000 3y ago
  According to Stratechery, Microsoft does not just have the rights to use the source code and model weights for GPT-3.5 and GPT-4, but a clause saying that Microsoft could not use the models as foundations for their own projects was recently removed. > Investors have no reason to worry about their investment in the tech. If Stratechery is correct, this means that if Microsoft successfully poaches Sam Altman and friends, and vacuums OpenAI clean of talent, they will even be able to use the actual GPT-4 to build a Microsoft GPT-5. That should make investors sweat. If you lose the people and (possibly) the technology, what's left?
  - himaraya 3y ago
    Source? Ben didn't read his cited source in his article yesterday.

MidnightSpike 3y ago

[dead]

spaceman_2020 3y ago

Good luck keeping those employees around even if they all decide to fold. These folks are being flooded with offers. Why would they work for an organization that doesn't care what 95% of them want?

otteromkram 3y ago
Why keep them around when there are hordes of qualified, recently laid-off workers ready to take their spot? And, not every person from OpenAI is getting flooded with offers. Maybe a few key scientists/developers. If anything, putting OpenAI on their resume might get workers preferential treatment for an initial interview. Maybe.
righthand 3y ago
Why would I jump ship for some lesser tech when OpenAI has everything I love working on?

somedude895 3y ago

> there are lots of people willing to take the defecting employees spots. Even 20% of employees leaving a company simultaneously is catastrophic. I think you're underestimating the effects here.

jacquesm 3y ago
They might be willing to take the spots, but given that OpenAI has been vacuuming up all of the real talent they could find those surely aren't going to be in the same class as the team that they already have.
righthand 3y ago
No I’m not, the effects are most likely short term snafu.

yokoprime 3y ago

Even if only 1/4 of the people threating to resign, resigns, its still like 20% of the company leaving abruptly without any sort of handover. They might keep the light on for chatgpt and the API's, but its going to blunt growth and re-hiring isn't done in a heartbeat. You need to vet, test and onboard new employees. You're looking at a setback of at least 9-12 months of growth and research

bostonsre 3y ago

It's one of the most innovative and impactful companies in a long time. I'm sure they'll be able to run gpt4, but good luck delivering gpt 5 (or 6 depending on how far along 5 is) when you lost entire teams that dreamt up and built previous iterations.

canes123456 3y ago

Even if all the employees don’t quit, losing even a quarter would be devastating. They will have a reputation as a shit show and lose all the best people to anthropic, Microsoft and google. They have the best product right now but everything improving so quickly means they will get left behind.