6 ms·
And why would that be?
by tnel77 3y ago
And why would that be?
- pawelduda 3y agoBecause he's salty about it, the comment doesn't point at anything else
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- colesantiago 3y agoName any positive valid use case that crypto does better than the current financial system.
- glerk 3y agoUncensorable money across borders
- colesantiago 3y agoThis is a perfect use case for criminals and ransomware gangs which is certainly why crypto is popular for these groups. Especially for funding the North Korean regime. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-11-18/how-north-korea-makes-a-fortune-stealing-crypto/103107824 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-11-18/how-north-korea-makes...
- afroboy 3y agoYou so realise that cash and gold are used by those groups as first choice?
- colesantiago 3y agoExcept crypto is way easier for criminals to move funds around better than what you've suggested.
- glerk 3y agoCool, but that’s not what you asked, and you’re moving the goalposts. I suggest you slow down and think about the pros/cons/tradeoffs instead of automatically going down the decision tree of this argument.
- colesantiago 3y agoWhat you've suggested is not a positive use case at all but sure it's perfect for criminals. Great job.
- glerk 3y agoAny authoritarian state will label dissidents as "criminals". If you want to flee Russia or Venezuela today without forfeiting all your property, crypto can come in handy. This is very much a positive use case if you value individual freedom. Remember that any wall and border has 2 sides.
- colesantiago 3y agoHmmm. Interesting. I can only name 1 person who is in this position you describe yet they are not fleeing Russia any time soon. So according to your logic the North Korean hackers who borrowed $2BN in crypto are not criminals in North Korea's eyes despite the US government calling them criminals? You might want to come with real world examples with a larger impact instead of tiny selective scenarios where almost nobody other than that 1 person would get themselves into.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- sneak 3y agoThe fact that it is useful to criminals does not mean it is not useful to non-criminals. You asked for examples of utility; it was provided. Firearms and cryptography are two additional examples of things that provide a lot of utility to their users, both innocent and criminal.
- colesantiago 3y ago> "Name any positive valid use case that crypto does better than the current financial system." This isn't a positive use case. It is a negative one. So unless you are a criminal or you're sending ransomware to Joan from Nebraska for 0.5 BTC... Nope.
- keep_reading 3y agoDomestic and international settlement speed
- colesantiago 3y agoWrong. Wise does this better than crypto.
- keep_reading 3y agoEven Wise's own website says it can take days. Bitcoin and others can be officially settled in minutes to hours https://wise.com/help/articles/2977951/why-is-my-transfer-taking-so-long https://wise.com/help/articles/2977951/why-is-my-transfer-ta...
- pawelduda 3y agoIronically the only way Wise would be faster to withdraw money to my (foreign) account is via crypto, for which they quote three digits (yikes!)
- J_Shelby_J 3y agoYour comment presupposes every human exists in your current, healthy, financial system.
- colesantiago 3y agolol that's not an answer.
- tnel77 3y agoIt isn’t? Seems like one to me.
- mcintyre1994 3y agoVisa are using it for cross-border settlements between issuer and merchant banks: https://usa.visa.com/about-visa/newsroom/press-releases.releaseId.19881.html https://usa.visa.com/about-visa/newsroom/press-releases.rele...
- EFreethought 3y agoThis is surprising. But it might not be as pro-crypto as crypto-boosters think. Crypto was supposed to replace orgs like Visa. Now Visa is co-opting crypto.
- colesantiago 3y agoCrypto bros harp on about that they don't need the legacy financial system or it needs to be decentralised away from the big banks and duopolies. It turns out that these entities are only getting into crypto for hiking up fees and centralisation, defeating the point of crypto in the first place. Projects such as UPI in India doesn't use Visa or Mastercard and is rolling out worldwide, the exact solution crypto was supposed to solve, yet 15 years later no progress whatsoever has been made on the crypto front. So crypto proponents have just been screeching for nothing but price speculation which isn't a use case at all.
- tnel77 3y agoThis feels like moving the goal posts a bit. >>Name one thing good about crypto names it “Welllll that doesn’t count.”
- sneak 3y agoEthereum has negative inflation, unlike many fiat currencies. I have used Bitcoin to donate money to organizations the state would prefer me not to, such as Ukrainian defense, or Wikileaks (famously blockaded by banks without/before criminal charges). There are lots of truly amazing cross-border use cases; permissionless internet money has huge utility. NFTs allow fans to financially support visual artists via collectibles (potentially with resale value) in exchange for donations. (I say donations because buying an NFT does not purchase the art the NFT represents.) Usually when I offer these use cases, people move the goalposts, saying how these things are somehow already possible (they aren’t, at least in the same way, or same speed, or same cost, or same level of privacy-preservation). It’s nice to be able to transact without identity attached to every transaction.
- colesantiago 3y ago> I have used Bitcoin to donate money to organizations the state would prefer me not to, such as Ukrainian defense, or Wikileaks (famously blockaded by banks without/before criminal charges). So? You can do all of this without crypto, there is nothing new or novel that crypto has done here. > There are lots of truly amazing cross-border use cases; permissionless internet money has huge utility. Same again, and in fact we have PayPal, Xoom, Wise, etc., Instead, you are asking normal people to rely on crypto exchanges to convert their crypto into fiat (with extra costly fees) through a complicated process in order to receive money. This is neither innovative or novel, it just adds more needless complexity and is a regression from what already exists in the current financial system. > NFTs allow fans to financially support visual artists via collectibles (potentially with resale value) in exchange for donations. (I say donations because buying an NFT does not purchase the art the NFT represents.) This highly wash traded 'market' is down big, so by using NFTs you're not really supporting artists at all, you are driving down the 'value' of the collectible down to 0. > Usually when I offer these use cases, people move the goalposts, saying how these things are somehow already possible (they aren’t, at least in the same way, or same speed, or same cost, or same level of privacy-preservation). The reason why we have the current system is to reduce the amount of bad actors trying to defraud people, crypto just blows this right open to create a wild west of fraud. How would the privacy preservation work with businesses, It wouldn't as no business would want to touch crypto and it is not worth the accounting hell for them. > It’s nice to be able to transact without identity attached to every transaction. This is called cash.
- tnel77 3y agoI don’t understand why they care so much. If crypto is so bad, just leave it alone and let it die.