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> His home was picketed during a tense labor negotiation. Also noxious and difficult for the family, but a necessary part of the democratic process to allow. N

> His home was picketed during a tense labor negotiation. Also noxious and difficult for the family, but a necessary part of the democratic process to allow. No, that is not necessary for democracy to work. Going to a public official's home is never necessary. Please enlighten me to what I'm missing that requires this invasion of privacy and security.

ceejayoz 3y ago
> Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. A peaceful protest on a public sidewalk outside a public official's home falls pretty squarely within those protections.
- conductr 3y ago
  I didn't argue it was illegal/unconstitutional. But voicing that it's certainly not an essential part of a functional democracy
  - autoexec 3y ago
    "the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances" seems like pretty essential part of a functional democracy to me.
    - conductr 3y ago
      There are a lot of places to do this that aren't in front of the politician's personal residence
      - autoexec 3y ago
        There certainly are a lot of less effective places for protesting. If protesting in front of a politician's personal residence is what it takes to be heard that's where people are going to do it.
        conductr 3y ago
        My kid is 4. He's learning the rules to soccer. If I wanted to teach him the most optimal way to steal the ball, I'd teach him to run up and scream in the other kids face until he got annoyed enough and handed the ball over. Efficiency and effectiveness by annoyance may be within the rules, but are shitty sportsmanship IMO
        ceejayoz 3y ago
        The other kid in your scenario doesn't have the power to tax, shoot, or jail your kid.
        conductr 3y ago
        But he's on the field in his position rightfully so, he's not even breaking any rules, he just has the ball and my son wants it. The whole thing with democracy is, sometimes things don't go your way, and the rules for how to change it are all right there in front of you. The high up GP comment that this discussion branched off of was talking about 'labor negotiations', sure it effects someone and obviously the labor wants the negotiations to go their way, but if it doesn't?
        ceejayoz 3y ago
        > But he's on the field in his position rightfully so, he's not even breaking any rules, he just has the ball and my son wants it. Soccer includes rules about sportsmanship; bad behavior gets you a yellow/red card. Politics doesn't have a referee nor much about sportsmanship. > The whole thing with democracy is, sometimes things don't go your way, and the rules for how to change it are all right there in front of you. Sure; one of those things allowed by said rules is public protest against elected officials.
epakai 3y ago
Officials aren't in a position to recognize the impact of their policy choices until it affects them personally. That's what requires this, and it's neither an invasion of their privacy nor their security, but a notice that they're stepping on people with their own actions.
- conductr 3y ago
  Then why do politician's with the means to do so, buy property that increases their privacy and security? Applying pressure and voicing discontent is a great part of democracy and should be protected. It's tone deaf to pretend these things aren't related to privacy and security. Despite best intentions, protesters are already agitated [that's why they're protesting] and it doesn't take much to turn to a security issue and if they can't check their mail or mow their lawn without being heckled, that's a privacy issue. I think we in America set ridiculous norms/boundaries on some things (things like this topic disrespecting the politician's personal life for something that is occurring in their professional/public life; also, feel that we care too much about their personal lives in general, sex/marriage/family stuff but that's another topic)

ceejayoz 3y ago

> Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. A peaceful protest on a public sidewalk outside a public official's home falls pretty squarely within those protections.

conductr 3y ago
I didn't argue it was illegal/unconstitutional. But voicing that it's certainly not an essential part of a functional democracy
- autoexec 3y ago
  "the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances" seems like pretty essential part of a functional democracy to me.
  - conductr 3y ago
    There are a lot of places to do this that aren't in front of the politician's personal residence
    - autoexec 3y ago
      There certainly are a lot of less effective places for protesting. If protesting in front of a politician's personal residence is what it takes to be heard that's where people are going to do it.
      - conductr 3y ago
        My kid is 4. He's learning the rules to soccer. If I wanted to teach him the most optimal way to steal the ball, I'd teach him to run up and scream in the other kids face until he got annoyed enough and handed the ball over. Efficiency and effectiveness by annoyance may be within the rules, but are shitty sportsmanship IMO
        ceejayoz 3y ago
        The other kid in your scenario doesn't have the power to tax, shoot, or jail your kid.
        conductr 3y ago
        But he's on the field in his position rightfully so, he's not even breaking any rules, he just has the ball and my son wants it. The whole thing with democracy is, sometimes things don't go your way, and the rules for how to change it are all right there in front of you. The high up GP comment that this discussion branched off of was talking about 'labor negotiations', sure it effects someone and obviously the labor wants the negotiations to go their way, but if it doesn't?
        ceejayoz 3y ago
        > But he's on the field in his position rightfully so, he's not even breaking any rules, he just has the ball and my son wants it. Soccer includes rules about sportsmanship; bad behavior gets you a yellow/red card. Politics doesn't have a referee nor much about sportsmanship. > The whole thing with democracy is, sometimes things don't go your way, and the rules for how to change it are all right there in front of you. Sure; one of those things allowed by said rules is public protest against elected officials.

epakai 3y ago

Officials aren't in a position to recognize the impact of their policy choices until it affects them personally. That's what requires this, and it's neither an invasion of their privacy nor their security, but a notice that they're stepping on people with their own actions.

conductr 3y ago
Then why do politician's with the means to do so, buy property that increases their privacy and security? Applying pressure and voicing discontent is a great part of democracy and should be protected. It's tone deaf to pretend these things aren't related to privacy and security. Despite best intentions, protesters are already agitated [that's why they're protesting] and it doesn't take much to turn to a security issue and if they can't check their mail or mow their lawn without being heckled, that's a privacy issue. I think we in America set ridiculous norms/boundaries on some things (things like this topic disrespecting the politician's personal life for something that is occurring in their professional/public life; also, feel that we care too much about their personal lives in general, sex/marriage/family stuff but that's another topic)