6 ms·

Spotify is very good at negotiating sweetheart deals. I am convinced that they negotiated something similar with Sony, because on the PS4, Spotify is the only a

Spotify is very good at negotiating sweetheart deals. I am convinced that they negotiated something similar with Sony, because on the PS4, Spotify is the only app I have found that can play overlay audio while you're playing a game to replace the background music.

rickdeckard 3y ago
True, but in case of Sony, Spotify replaced "PlayStation Music", a competing service of Sony which simply didn't scale, and the only service able to overlay music over any game
- tantalor 3y ago
  > the only service able to overlay music over any game Able to? Or allowed to?
  - notnmeyer 3y ago
    those are the same thing in this context. obviously it’s not that spotify is the only company capable of figuring it out. what’s left? sony blessing spotify.
    - manwe150 3y ago
      It could also be there is only enough profit for one, so the game theory equilibrium is zero. So Spotify could be the only player large enough for Sony to profitably encourage. Although that theory doesn’t account for them not giving the option of free music players written by hobbyists who don’t care about profit or labels but only serve indy content
      - rickdeckard 3y ago
        PlayStation Music (or actually "Music unlimited" as it was called) was the only music application able/allowed to run in background while a game was running. Other (hobbyist) music players are not allowed, likely because it would make the available resources to a game less predictable, so harder to optimizer for the console... As many others, Sony found later that it's not worth it to operate a own streaming service, and probably made a deal with Spotify where Sony provided the initial application, Spotify provided the service and potentially pays some additional revenue share to Sony. It's a story from a moment in time where every distributor/company thought they could do a better/more profitable music streaming service than Spotify...
        pests 3y ago
        Apple Music and local playback supports background play while a game is running. I doubt it's any of this "allowed to" nonsense and simply those other apps just didn't add support for the PlayStation.
        fomine3 3y ago
        Game console is strict about background process usage than a phone.
        pests 3y ago
        Okay, and?
barbazoo 3y ago
This made me think of GTA Vice City I think (someone correct me if I'm wrong) where one of the radio stations played local audio files, loved that.
- anonymous_sorry 3y ago
  I have a feeling the original '97 GTA could kinda do that. Or maybe GTA2. You could find the directories on disk where the radio music was stored and just copy in your own stuff.
  - RajT88 3y ago
    I recall TrackMania Sunrise was like this. That game was made to be modded, so it kinda made sense they made replacing audio easy. Side note: After watching The Stig's laps while listening to dull audio on Top Gear, I tried replacing TrackMania's music with very soothing music. My times got better.
  - whywhywhywhy 3y ago
    Original GTA they were CD tracks on the disk unless this changed in a later release.
  - uhoh-itsmaciek 3y ago
    I vaguely recall that '97 GTA allowed you to eject the disc after the game started and load an audio CD that would play when you selected the custom radio station.
- vorticalbox 3y ago
  This feature is in euro truck simulator.
- AdmiralAsshat 3y ago
  Depends on which version of Vice City you played. The original PS2 version would not have had access to a hard drive. GTA: San Andreas on the XBOX did allow you to use such a feature, provided that you had used the XBOX's disc drive to rip the audio CDs yourself. I recall letting the XBOX rip all of my System of a Down CDs circa 2005 for expressly this purpose. PC ports, IDK. Probably.
Ayesh 3y ago
Spotify is also the only app apart from YouTube Music that works in Google Home devices (at least in my region).
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
cobertos 3y ago
Does anyone know the social mechanisms behind the scenes that allow them to negotiate such effective deals? Spotify is deeply in bed with the traditional labels/music industry and that industry seems to be able to "move" stuff easily from what I've seen. I always have a hard time visualizing all the components at play here though.
- YetAnotherNick 3y ago
  I think it is because spotify's biggest competitor is Apple. And both Google and Sony really doesn't want Apple to control the music streaming industry as it could affect their device sales.
  - panopticon 3y ago
    It's interesting because Google has their own competing music streaming platform, but they still seem to give preferential treatment to Spotify. For example Spotify was the only service that worked with the Android clock app when they added the ability to use music with alarms. YouTube Music support didn't land until a year later.
    - lallysingh 3y ago
      Because they know that their service sucks and will probably get shut down. I'm speaking as a customer of both
  - CharlesW 3y ago
    > And both Google and Sony really doesn't want Apple to control the music streaming industry as it could affect their device sales. Is that true? My Alexa and Sonos devices work great with Apple Music.
    - YetAnotherNick 3y ago
      Becuase there is competetion now so Apple has to play well. In cases where Apple doesn't have any competetion or is significantly ahead like iMessage or FaceTime or satellite message, Apple has a history of creating ecosystem.
hexedpackets 3y ago
Sony was a major investor in Spotify, reportedly worth $1.5B at IPO[1]. I'm not sure how much stock they've held since then. [1] https://www.musicbusinessworldwide.com/sonys-stake-in-spotify-worth-1-5bn-as-streaming-company-finishes-opening-day-on-nyse-with-27bn-market-cap/ https://www.musicbusinessworldwide.com/sonys-stake-in-spotif...
sadjad 3y ago
Apple Music can do the same on PS5.
deelowe 3y ago
Related question. Why don't any games allow you to replace the in game music with something else? Is this patent encumbered or something? I figured by now, I'd be able to simply go into settings, choose an audio provider (e.g. YT Music, spotify, local, etc) and have a custom BGM soundtrack play.
- filoleg 3y ago
  It’s not necessarily that game devs“don’t allow it,” and more like “didn’t bother to implement that feature and integrate with those services.” Which is a really fair point. Because why waste time on this, when a user who cares about playing their own music can just open a browser tab or spotify/apple music/local/etc. app, and it will work literally in any game anywhere. And Playstation supports Spotify/Apple Music/local music playback during games natively, without any hacks or workarounds (like using the built-in web browser) as well. I assume Xbox has similar functionality, but I don’t have much experience with it. The only games i’ve seen that allow (limited) in-game audio provider choice are those that have an in-game radio feature (older GTA games, Forza, etc.), so that the custom user music kinda works “in-universe” in those games.
- tonyarkles 3y ago
  Smiling thinking back to Quake 1, which only took up a small fraction of the CD for the installer and would play any audio CD that was in your drive for you :D
- TaylorAlexander 3y ago
  Lots of discussion in the replies to this comment about games which do permit that. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38366126 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38366126
- taway1237 3y ago
  On PC you can just mute the music and play anything you want in the background. So there's no need for a special support.
  - deelowe 3y ago
filoleg 3y ago
Correction, it works with Apple Music as well[0], and with local music files[1]. As for why, it seems like those were just the only two that bothered to integrate their apps with Playstation. Which kind of makes sense, as Spotify and Apple Music are the two largest streaming services currently (by user numbers[2]). Youtube could arguably claim to be more popular, but their YT music app feels half-baked even on the primary platforms (iOS and Android). And the other ones right behind are Tencent Music and Amazon Music, which are rather unpopular, at least in the US. 0. https://www.playstation.com/en-us/support/subscriptions/how-to-stream-music-and-podcasts-on-ps5-consoles/ https://www.playstation.com/en-us/support/subscriptions/how-... 1. https://www.playstation.com/en-us/support/hardware/play-video-music-discs-usb-drives/ https://www.playstation.com/en-us/support/hardware/play-vide... 2. https://explodingtopics.com/blog/music-streaming-stats https://explodingtopics.com/blog/music-streaming-stats
- DragonStrength 3y ago
  Weird framing of those linked numbers: Spotify (30%) is way out in front and Apple (13.7%), Tencent (13.4%), and Amazon (13.3%) all have similar market share.
seatac76 3y ago
It helps that Sony is also a big player in the music rights business so it was probably in Sony’s interest to make it easy.
plz-remove-card 3y ago
> Spotify is very good at negotiating sweetheart deals. Indeed, and that skillset has given them an advantage in the market. Things working as expected. Does it suck for their competitors? Absolutely. Is it illegal? I don't think so. Anyone is free to fork android and make their own app store. A luxury thanks to open source. The network effect is real but the market isn't intended to be "fair", it's brutal.
nathancahill 3y ago
Also many cellular providers (esp developing countries) have sweetheart deals for serving Spotify data without it counting towards your data limits. Facebook has/had that too in many markets.
scarface_74 3y ago
If they were “very good at it”, why haven’t they turned a profit…ever?

rickdeckard 3y ago

True, but in case of Sony, Spotify replaced "PlayStation Music", a competing service of Sony which simply didn't scale, and the only service able to overlay music over any game

tantalor 3y ago
> the only service able to overlay music over any game Able to? Or allowed to?
- notnmeyer 3y ago
  those are the same thing in this context. obviously it’s not that spotify is the only company capable of figuring it out. what’s left? sony blessing spotify.
  - manwe150 3y ago
    It could also be there is only enough profit for one, so the game theory equilibrium is zero. So Spotify could be the only player large enough for Sony to profitably encourage. Although that theory doesn’t account for them not giving the option of free music players written by hobbyists who don’t care about profit or labels but only serve indy content
    - rickdeckard 3y ago
      PlayStation Music (or actually "Music unlimited" as it was called) was the only music application able/allowed to run in background while a game was running. Other (hobbyist) music players are not allowed, likely because it would make the available resources to a game less predictable, so harder to optimizer for the console... As many others, Sony found later that it's not worth it to operate a own streaming service, and probably made a deal with Spotify where Sony provided the initial application, Spotify provided the service and potentially pays some additional revenue share to Sony. It's a story from a moment in time where every distributor/company thought they could do a better/more profitable music streaming service than Spotify...
      - pests 3y ago
        Apple Music and local playback supports background play while a game is running. I doubt it's any of this "allowed to" nonsense and simply those other apps just didn't add support for the PlayStation.
        fomine3 3y ago
        Game console is strict about background process usage than a phone.
        pests 3y ago
        Okay, and?

barbazoo 3y ago

This made me think of GTA Vice City I think (someone correct me if I'm wrong) where one of the radio stations played local audio files, loved that.

anonymous_sorry 3y ago
I have a feeling the original '97 GTA could kinda do that. Or maybe GTA2. You could find the directories on disk where the radio music was stored and just copy in your own stuff.
- RajT88 3y ago
  I recall TrackMania Sunrise was like this. That game was made to be modded, so it kinda made sense they made replacing audio easy. Side note: After watching The Stig's laps while listening to dull audio on Top Gear, I tried replacing TrackMania's music with very soothing music. My times got better.
- whywhywhywhy 3y ago
  Original GTA they were CD tracks on the disk unless this changed in a later release.
- uhoh-itsmaciek 3y ago
  I vaguely recall that '97 GTA allowed you to eject the disc after the game started and load an audio CD that would play when you selected the custom radio station.
vorticalbox 3y ago
This feature is in euro truck simulator.
AdmiralAsshat 3y ago
Depends on which version of Vice City you played. The original PS2 version would not have had access to a hard drive. GTA: San Andreas on the XBOX did allow you to use such a feature, provided that you had used the XBOX's disc drive to rip the audio CDs yourself. I recall letting the XBOX rip all of my System of a Down CDs circa 2005 for expressly this purpose. PC ports, IDK. Probably.

Ayesh 3y ago

Spotify is also the only app apart from YouTube Music that works in Google Home devices (at least in my region).

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

cobertos 3y ago

Does anyone know the social mechanisms behind the scenes that allow them to negotiate such effective deals? Spotify is deeply in bed with the traditional labels/music industry and that industry seems to be able to "move" stuff easily from what I've seen. I always have a hard time visualizing all the components at play here though.

YetAnotherNick 3y ago
I think it is because spotify's biggest competitor is Apple. And both Google and Sony really doesn't want Apple to control the music streaming industry as it could affect their device sales.
- panopticon 3y ago
  It's interesting because Google has their own competing music streaming platform, but they still seem to give preferential treatment to Spotify. For example Spotify was the only service that worked with the Android clock app when they added the ability to use music with alarms. YouTube Music support didn't land until a year later.
  - lallysingh 3y ago
    Because they know that their service sucks and will probably get shut down. I'm speaking as a customer of both
- CharlesW 3y ago
  > And both Google and Sony really doesn't want Apple to control the music streaming industry as it could affect their device sales. Is that true? My Alexa and Sonos devices work great with Apple Music.
  - YetAnotherNick 3y ago
    Becuase there is competetion now so Apple has to play well. In cases where Apple doesn't have any competetion or is significantly ahead like iMessage or FaceTime or satellite message, Apple has a history of creating ecosystem.

hexedpackets 3y ago

Sony was a major investor in Spotify, reportedly worth $1.5B at IPO[1]. I'm not sure how much stock they've held since then. [1] https://www.musicbusinessworldwide.com/sonys-stake-in-spotify-worth-1-5bn-as-streaming-company-finishes-opening-day-on-nyse-with-27bn-market-cap/ https://www.musicbusinessworldwide.com/sonys-stake-in-spotif...

sadjad 3y ago

Apple Music can do the same on PS5.

deelowe 3y ago

Related question. Why don't any games allow you to replace the in game music with something else? Is this patent encumbered or something? I figured by now, I'd be able to simply go into settings, choose an audio provider (e.g. YT Music, spotify, local, etc) and have a custom BGM soundtrack play.

filoleg 3y ago
It’s not necessarily that game devs“don’t allow it,” and more like “didn’t bother to implement that feature and integrate with those services.” Which is a really fair point. Because why waste time on this, when a user who cares about playing their own music can just open a browser tab or spotify/apple music/local/etc. app, and it will work literally in any game anywhere. And Playstation supports Spotify/Apple Music/local music playback during games natively, without any hacks or workarounds (like using the built-in web browser) as well. I assume Xbox has similar functionality, but I don’t have much experience with it. The only games i’ve seen that allow (limited) in-game audio provider choice are those that have an in-game radio feature (older GTA games, Forza, etc.), so that the custom user music kinda works “in-universe” in those games.
tonyarkles 3y ago
Smiling thinking back to Quake 1, which only took up a small fraction of the CD for the installer and would play any audio CD that was in your drive for you :D
TaylorAlexander 3y ago
Lots of discussion in the replies to this comment about games which do permit that. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38366126 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38366126
taway1237 3y ago
On PC you can just mute the music and play anything you want in the background. So there's no need for a special support.
- deelowe 3y ago

filoleg 3y ago

Correction, it works with Apple Music as well[0], and with local music files[1]. As for why, it seems like those were just the only two that bothered to integrate their apps with Playstation. Which kind of makes sense, as Spotify and Apple Music are the two largest streaming services currently (by user numbers[2]). Youtube could arguably claim to be more popular, but their YT music app feels half-baked even on the primary platforms (iOS and Android). And the other ones right behind are Tencent Music and Amazon Music, which are rather unpopular, at least in the US. 0. https://www.playstation.com/en-us/support/subscriptions/how-to-stream-music-and-podcasts-on-ps5-consoles/ https://www.playstation.com/en-us/support/subscriptions/how-... 1. https://www.playstation.com/en-us/support/hardware/play-video-music-discs-usb-drives/ https://www.playstation.com/en-us/support/hardware/play-vide... 2. https://explodingtopics.com/blog/music-streaming-stats https://explodingtopics.com/blog/music-streaming-stats

DragonStrength 3y ago
Weird framing of those linked numbers: Spotify (30%) is way out in front and Apple (13.7%), Tencent (13.4%), and Amazon (13.3%) all have similar market share.

seatac76 3y ago

It helps that Sony is also a big player in the music rights business so it was probably in Sony’s interest to make it easy.

plz-remove-card 3y ago

> Spotify is very good at negotiating sweetheart deals. Indeed, and that skillset has given them an advantage in the market. Things working as expected. Does it suck for their competitors? Absolutely. Is it illegal? I don't think so. Anyone is free to fork android and make their own app store. A luxury thanks to open source. The network effect is real but the market isn't intended to be "fair", it's brutal.

nathancahill 3y ago

Also many cellular providers (esp developing countries) have sweetheart deals for serving Spotify data without it counting towards your data limits. Facebook has/had that too in many markets.

scarface_74 3y ago

If they were “very good at it”, why haven’t they turned a profit…ever?