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The premise of founding OpenAI as a nonprofit with "nobler" goals than making money was that it would be a strong magnet to the right talent. Going to work for
by yafbum 3y ago
The premise of founding OpenAI as a nonprofit with "nobler" goals than making money was that it would be a strong magnet to the right talent. Going to work for Microsoft (or any other tech company for that matter), from that point of view, is like crossing over to the dark side of the force. It will be interesting to see how many of OpenAI's employees were there because of its nonprofit status, and how many were there in spite of it.
- kolinko 3y ago700 out of 770 employees already signed an open letter saying they will consider changing jobs.
- fyokdrigd 3y agowhat this have to do with their willingness to join Microsoft?!? this only signals desire to leave openai. nothing else.
- mr_mitm 3y agoThis is a direct quote from the letter: >We , the undersigned, may choose to resign from OpenAI and join the newly announced Microsoft subsidiary run by Sam Altman and Greg Brockman Microsoft has assured us that there are positions for all OpenAl employees at this new subsidiary should we choose to join. It does suggest more than their willingness to leave.
- fyokdrigd 3y agothanks. couldn't have guessed that from the comment alone. not like I'm following this fabricated soap opera very close
- phreeza 3y agoHow reliable is this information, could it be a deliberate rumor spread by interested parties?
- crdrost 3y agoI agree that it is surprising that the first big whiff of collective bargaining that we see in Big Tech is “let’s save this asshole CEO (who would probably try to bust any formal unionization),”[1] rather than trying to safeguard the workers in the industry as a whole. But I just attribute that to Silicon Valley being this weird hero-worship-libertarian-fantasy cosplay rather than outright conspiracy. [1] Just to clarify, I don't know Sam and I am taking the usual labor viewpoint that most CEOs, in order to become CEOs, had to be a certain sort of asshole who would be likely to do other such asshole things. There are some indications that this sort of assholery is what he was fired for but it's kinda hard to read between the lines here.
- malcolmgreaves 3y agoEverything about this post is spot-on. The CEO got ousted because he lied to the board and went against the company's mission to make safe AGI. He tried to milk OpenAI for money and personal gain, and the board actually did something to stop it. The downvotes here are pretty irrational. But that's the defining feature of class warfare: we're all closer to homelessness than a billion dollars, but we've been conditioned to believe the opposite.
- justrealist 3y agoI don't doubt that a lot will, but it's also easy to sign a letter.
- perihelions 3y ago[unpopular comment removed]
- corobo 3y agoAt the point where the majority of employees have signed it I imagine it's much easier. Might even get a bit weird if you're one of a few holdouts e: for what it's worth I thought it was a reasonable discussion point, not sure why you got downvoted on that one :(
- perihelions 3y agoIt was a risky gambit for the first half of the signers. Was it not?
- macksd 3y agoI have no idea what the process was for gathering the signatures, but one way to solve this problem is a mutual confidentiality pact that goes away with enough momentum. Ask people if they're willing to sign, but if you can't get 50% of the people to sign the document and all the signatures go away. Similar things are done when doing anonymous 360 surveys in the workplace. If not enough people in a certain pool respond, the feedback doesn't get shared.
- corobo 3y agoOh aye for sure - All unions are risky to start with, that's why you gotta keep them quiet until you have overwhelming support
- mepiethree 3y agoIs it really burning a bridge though if >90% of your coworkers (and even bosses) agree?
- shmatt 3y agoRemember all those Apple and Amazon employees who signed a letter that they're not going back to the office? Last I heard Apple was at 100% compliance Make no mistake, if Microsoft is matching $10M PPU's with $10M Microsoft RSUs vesting over 4 years, every single employee will join. But I kind of doubt that this is their plan
- ForkMeOnTinder 3y ago> Last I heard Apple was at 100% compliance That doesn't tell you whether it was the numerator or the denominator that changed.
- ryandrake 3y agoIt's at least the denominator and likely both. I personally know a non-zero number of people formerly there who found a different job or retired when Apple insisted on everyone returning to the office.
- GreedClarifies 3y agoThat kind of compensation skew will case ripples in the company. It's possible that OpenAI is worth it, but it is a big gamble by Microsoft. I think that is approximately L70 comp.
- FireBeyond 3y agoOh yes, it's going to create waves. People who've had compensation stagnation at Microsoft, reduced bonuses, "belt tightening" now see that "well, we're willing to throw stupid amounts of money at those people over there, just not you".
- znpy 3y agoIsn't it like that at any company?
- 3y ago
- squigz 3y agoAs others have pointed out, it's easier to sign a letter than actually go through with it. Besides that, wasn't there some employees who said something similar on Friday when this happened?
- jacquesm 3y agoThis is simply a matter of momentum. If enough of the signatories follow through more will cross the bridge until there are too few people left to keep it going and then there will be an avalanche. It all depends on the size of the initial wave and the kind of follow on. If that stops at 200 people leaving it will probably stay like that, if that number is 300 or even 400 out of the 700 then OpenAI will be dead because the remainder will move as well.
- yafbum 3y agoThey didn't say they were going to Microsoft, as far as I can tell. I presume many can get golden offers anywhere including academia and other institutions with stronger nonprofit governance track record.
- mv4 3y agoLiterally says "join the newly announced Microsoft subsidiary" Source: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2023/11/20/technology/letter-to-the-open-ai-board.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2023/11/20/technology/le...
- yumraj 3y agoI think peer pressure also plays a part. You want to be part of the majority in case things change, Sam comes back etc. Actually going is a whole different thing. Why not go to Google or FB or Anthropic if you’re quitting anyway, and they can match the offer.
- JackFr 3y ago> they will consider changing jobs. Hmmmm. The stiff resolve of a spaghetti noodle. I "consider" changing jobs literally every single day.
- DonHopkins 3y agoIf they were in it for purely noble reasons, they would have already left when it became NotOpenAI.
- DeIlliad 3y agoVery few people in tech are in it for noble reasons. Although, a nice pair of golden handcuffs can let you delude yourself into thinking what you are doing is noble. I can't imagine people working on shadow profiles at Facebook think what they are doing is noble.
- baq 3y agoExactly this. When challenged, they say ‘someone else would’ve done it anyway, so it might as well be me’. Which isn’t incorrect I think.
- melvinmelih 3y agoI suspect very little people joined OpenAI for their noble non-profit mission after they introduced their for-profit subsidiary. OpenAI compensation was and still is top notch. Compare it to Signal, which is a true non-profit (and salaries are a lot lower).
- yafbum 3y agoNonprofit status relates to the absence of investor payouts, and doesn't fundamentally have much to do with pay levels. Some employees can be on occasion willing to accept lower pay when the motives are altruistic, but most employees at nonprofits are paid (have to be paid) market rate.
- JumpinJack_Cash 3y ago> > Nonprofit status relates to the absence of investor payouts The people at the helm of the first organization which cracks AI won't have any need for money
- rvba 3y agoIm trying to find some of those rich people who dont need money/bitcoin - so they can send me some!
- JumpinJack_Cash 3y agoThey can leverage AI to get power, they can leverage AI to build the best hedge funds, the possibilities are endless.
- benj111 3y agoAnd what have we got other than hft from all the billions poured in so far? Further, I suspect any ai capable of outperforming the market would be too rational, to the point that you wouldn't be able to market it. If the ai decided that bitcoin wasn't the future, and in 20 years time was proved right, how many people would have maintained that patience?
- jansan 3y agoWhen reading the title I was instantly reminded of "Come to the dark side, we have cookies!"
- peterbell_nyc 3y agohttps://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/voik6qeguhwaa0hx4zmxm/come-to-the-dark-side.webp?rlkey=hedradu935zttdcj6wy2cp71w&dl=0 https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/voik6qeguhwaa0hx4zmxm/come-to...
- rco8786 3y agoI would wager a very small % of them care about the legal structure of the business and just wanted to build really cool stuff with Sam.
- cyanydeez 3y agoit didn't preclude a now common cult of personality problem.
- m3kw9 3y agoYou join OpenAI because if there is an open spot you’d take it. Plus it’s a famous company doing cutting edge AI, sure you can read the statement, but everyone wants to eat and get a better resume. It’s a bonus thing to feel. In summary, nobody gaf
- mtrovo 3y agoWhen you're total compensation depends on the for profit part does it really matter? People talk about the coherence of 700 people signing an open letter as being goal aligned, but I see it more like mortgage payment aligned.