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Are engineers really setting up sentry without it being on the roadmap? PMs direct the engineers.

tfsh 3y ago
Depends what the culture is at Sunbird. Potentially it's very bottom-up and eng is making all the technical decisions and PM just steers the overall vision. However I'd hope this is a case of an overworked team and over zealous management, because the alternative suggests a dangerously incompetent dev team.
- FirmwareBurner 3y ago
  >PM just steers the overall vision So, they're useless? Product managers should ideally be the technical voice of reason between the tech illiterate visionaries and the engineers in the trenches, steering the visionaries on what's technically feasible within the available resources.
tuetuopay 3y ago
Observability is a good engineering practice. Sentry is invaluable to get app crashes in prod, and I wouldn't want any PM deciding whether we set up sentry or not. The real issue is the lack of control of what is logged and what logs go to sentry
mrweasel 3y ago
Yes... Why would a PM put Sentry on the roadmap, unless that PM has some reasonable level of technical understanding, but at that point the same PM should have been aware of many of the security implications of the overall project. A not unreasonable guess would be that Sunbird doesn't have a great number of senior engineers on staff, either do to cost, or because very few wanted to take on such a project. So it cobbled together by inexperienced engineering that know enough to understand the Sentry is useful, but not experienced enough avoid logging credentials. Basically all the errors listed in the article just reads like what happens when you set a bunch of inexperience developers and SREs to build a platform that doesn't want to exist. Which leads me to: How the does this even work? I'd assume a massive number of virtualized macOS installation, anything more advanced would sort of negate the incompetence on the security front. Sort of a side note: I questioned the point of the Nothing Phone and Nothing Phone 2 when they where both released, they are nothing more than Android phones with a few gimmick but everyone was loosing their minds over those things and now ArsTechnica writes: "Nothing has always seemed like an Android manufacturer that was more hype than substance" (and apparently also did for back when the Nothing Phone release. I'm getting so very tied of the hype and how easily any criticism can be reject as me being old and "not getting it".
- kergonath 3y ago
  > I questioned the point of the Nothing Phone and Nothing Phone 2 when they where both released, they are nothing more than Android phones with a few gimmick but everyone was loosing their minds over those things and now ArsTechnica writes: "Nothing has always seemed like an Android manufacturer that was more hype than substance" I think there is a perception issue. Ars is not a person. I don’t know who was hyped when the phone was released, but Ron Amadeo sounds like someone who would indeed have been skeptical about Nothing’s pitch.

tfsh 3y ago

Depends what the culture is at Sunbird. Potentially it's very bottom-up and eng is making all the technical decisions and PM just steers the overall vision. However I'd hope this is a case of an overworked team and over zealous management, because the alternative suggests a dangerously incompetent dev team.

FirmwareBurner 3y ago
>PM just steers the overall vision So, they're useless? Product managers should ideally be the technical voice of reason between the tech illiterate visionaries and the engineers in the trenches, steering the visionaries on what's technically feasible within the available resources.

tuetuopay 3y ago

Observability is a good engineering practice. Sentry is invaluable to get app crashes in prod, and I wouldn't want any PM deciding whether we set up sentry or not. The real issue is the lack of control of what is logged and what logs go to sentry

mrweasel 3y ago

Yes... Why would a PM put Sentry on the roadmap, unless that PM has some reasonable level of technical understanding, but at that point the same PM should have been aware of many of the security implications of the overall project. A not unreasonable guess would be that Sunbird doesn't have a great number of senior engineers on staff, either do to cost, or because very few wanted to take on such a project. So it cobbled together by inexperienced engineering that know enough to understand the Sentry is useful, but not experienced enough avoid logging credentials. Basically all the errors listed in the article just reads like what happens when you set a bunch of inexperience developers and SREs to build a platform that doesn't want to exist. Which leads me to: How the does this even work? I'd assume a massive number of virtualized macOS installation, anything more advanced would sort of negate the incompetence on the security front. Sort of a side note: I questioned the point of the Nothing Phone and Nothing Phone 2 when they where both released, they are nothing more than Android phones with a few gimmick but everyone was loosing their minds over those things and now ArsTechnica writes: "Nothing has always seemed like an Android manufacturer that was more hype than substance" (and apparently also did for back when the Nothing Phone release. I'm getting so very tied of the hype and how easily any criticism can be reject as me being old and "not getting it".

kergonath 3y ago
> I questioned the point of the Nothing Phone and Nothing Phone 2 when they where both released, they are nothing more than Android phones with a few gimmick but everyone was loosing their minds over those things and now ArsTechnica writes: "Nothing has always seemed like an Android manufacturer that was more hype than substance" I think there is a perception issue. Ars is not a person. I don’t know who was hyped when the phone was released, but Ron Amadeo sounds like someone who would indeed have been skeptical about Nothing’s pitch.