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The article (which basically says Blazor is a bit cumbersome and pointless) has plenty of truth (and a few half-truths) to it but it's assuming that you're usin

The article (which basically says Blazor is a bit cumbersome and pointless) has plenty of truth (and a few half-truths) to it but it's assuming that you're using it in a context where pure js + html would just be much better for the end user (wait, isn't pure native better for the end user..). What it doesn't really tackle is the productivity from the developer perspective, very little mental context switching, code re-use/sharing with backend models etc (api models, validation etc) and the surprisingly productive nature of the Razor templating language. It's a combination that makes sense for developers, less so for end users. Most end users for these apps will be corporate intranets (love that the article mentions SEO, yeah right). When these same corporate users were using monolithic WPF apps, did anyone care then? If you're replacing a shared spreadsheet cooked up by Tim on the data analytics team, how much does JS really matter. Consider if the same Devs opted for react or angular etc, would the end users actually care? Ultimately it's up to the businesses to decide if this makes sense and the technology is driven mainly by developer sentiment, which circles back. If this is an easy way to make corporate apps, then why not.

Cthulhu_ 3y ago
Coming from the other side, this compatibility is why NodeJS is still very popular on the back-end. It makes sense for companies to try and stick to one programming language and / or ecosystem, else you end up with two disciplines within your company. http://boringtechnology.club/ http://boringtechnology.club/ 's slides show the problem pretty well. I'm not saying companies should stick to one technology, since the "golden hammer" is also not a good idea, but that the technology choices should be taken with care and consideration of things like hiring.
- BoorishBears 3y ago
  Blazor is the definition of boring technology through and through. Use it in MVC mode and get ergonomics that date back to the early 2000s with a hiring pool so deep you can't ever find the bottom of it
  - banashark 3y ago
    Referencing the site, I would categorize Blazor under both: - Unknown unknowns (since it hasn't been out for as long and battle-tested by as many people) - Shiny new tech (one could argue that C# is old, but that's a small part of the experience of a new and shiny API)
dustedcodes 3y ago
Thanks for your feedback. It sounds like you are saying that Blazor was created mainly for internal corporate apps on their intranet, but I don't think that is quite what Microsoft envisions when they market Blazor. Perhaps that is where you concluded that Blazor has its only real place, possibly for the exact reasons which I've listed in the article? > If you're replacing a shared spreadsheet cooked up by Tim on the data analytics team, how much does JS really matter. I take your point, but from my experience replacing an internal spreadsheet which most non engineers know exactly how it works and does mostly everything they need/want with a custom SPA so 5 people in an organisation can do a task differently has never been a good use of developer resources or improved productivity.
merinofg 3y ago
People don't realize this. Blazor is about the developer. I am a `DevOps/Backend` guy and in my previous job some internal tools were made with Blazor. It was such a joy to work with. Productivity was so high. You add Blazor Radzen components[1] or Syncfusion[2] and suddenly feels like magic. Super complex grid tables can filter, re-order columns, aggregate them and much more functionality for free in 10 lines or fewer. I cannot recommend enough to people to give it a try. This technology enabled me to do a repair shop software in 1-2 month on my spare time. From customers to emitting bills in PDF. Zero JS and just using the basics grids from bootstrap CSS to make it responsive. As a non frontend developer, this was heaven. [1] https://blazor.radzen.com/ https://blazor.radzen.com/ [2] https://www.syncfusion.com/blazor-components https://www.syncfusion.com/blazor-components
- BoorishBears 3y ago
  It's funny you're being downvoted, I've used Blazor on less important side projects and I love it for the same reasons, but a subset of HN hates it because their uBlock Origin no-Js anti-tracker cookieless oddball browsers choke on it. Interestingly enough Google's crawlers don't even choke on it: my fully SignalR based site was indexed soon after getting a spike in traffic without an issue. Does it annoy me that leaving the tab and coming back can kill the app? Sure. But often times I reach for it when I otherwise wouldn't have built a thing at all. Most normal people will take an app with hair edges they can use over nothing so I'm going to keep reaching for it from time to time
  - mardifoufs 3y ago
    No, people hate it because it's a massive downgrade in UX, especially the wasm variant, just because backend devs don't want to use the right tools for the job. I'm fine with it in internal apps, but public facing apps using blazor would be horrible for the users, which is why it is thankfully very rare to see. Javascript seems downright lightweight and unbloated compared to shipping an entire dot net runtime for a crud form app. For what it's worth, I don't care about turning off javaScript or even bloat in general, but this is extreme.
wwilim 3y ago
Blazor Server is even better for corporate intranet applications. Building monitoring/operations apps is insanely easy when you can just connect your UI components directly to a singleton state on the backend. I wouldn't even consider anything else if my job was to make an app for a group of users who all sit in the same room.
hliyan 3y ago
can we not say the same thing about PHP applications?

Cthulhu_ 3y ago

Coming from the other side, this compatibility is why NodeJS is still very popular on the back-end. It makes sense for companies to try and stick to one programming language and / or ecosystem, else you end up with two disciplines within your company. http://boringtechnology.club/ http://boringtechnology.club/ 's slides show the problem pretty well. I'm not saying companies should stick to one technology, since the "golden hammer" is also not a good idea, but that the technology choices should be taken with care and consideration of things like hiring.

BoorishBears 3y ago
Blazor is the definition of boring technology through and through. Use it in MVC mode and get ergonomics that date back to the early 2000s with a hiring pool so deep you can't ever find the bottom of it
- banashark 3y ago
  Referencing the site, I would categorize Blazor under both: - Unknown unknowns (since it hasn't been out for as long and battle-tested by as many people) - Shiny new tech (one could argue that C# is old, but that's a small part of the experience of a new and shiny API)

dustedcodes 3y ago

Thanks for your feedback. It sounds like you are saying that Blazor was created mainly for internal corporate apps on their intranet, but I don't think that is quite what Microsoft envisions when they market Blazor. Perhaps that is where you concluded that Blazor has its only real place, possibly for the exact reasons which I've listed in the article? > If you're replacing a shared spreadsheet cooked up by Tim on the data analytics team, how much does JS really matter. I take your point, but from my experience replacing an internal spreadsheet which most non engineers know exactly how it works and does mostly everything they need/want with a custom SPA so 5 people in an organisation can do a task differently has never been a good use of developer resources or improved productivity.

merinofg 3y ago

People don't realize this. Blazor is about the developer. I am a `DevOps/Backend` guy and in my previous job some internal tools were made with Blazor. It was such a joy to work with. Productivity was so high. You add Blazor Radzen components[1] or Syncfusion[2] and suddenly feels like magic. Super complex grid tables can filter, re-order columns, aggregate them and much more functionality for free in 10 lines or fewer. I cannot recommend enough to people to give it a try. This technology enabled me to do a repair shop software in 1-2 month on my spare time. From customers to emitting bills in PDF. Zero JS and just using the basics grids from bootstrap CSS to make it responsive. As a non frontend developer, this was heaven. [1] https://blazor.radzen.com/ https://blazor.radzen.com/ [2] https://www.syncfusion.com/blazor-components https://www.syncfusion.com/blazor-components

BoorishBears 3y ago
It's funny you're being downvoted, I've used Blazor on less important side projects and I love it for the same reasons, but a subset of HN hates it because their uBlock Origin no-Js anti-tracker cookieless oddball browsers choke on it. Interestingly enough Google's crawlers don't even choke on it: my fully SignalR based site was indexed soon after getting a spike in traffic without an issue. Does it annoy me that leaving the tab and coming back can kill the app? Sure. But often times I reach for it when I otherwise wouldn't have built a thing at all. Most normal people will take an app with hair edges they can use over nothing so I'm going to keep reaching for it from time to time
- mardifoufs 3y ago
  No, people hate it because it's a massive downgrade in UX, especially the wasm variant, just because backend devs don't want to use the right tools for the job. I'm fine with it in internal apps, but public facing apps using blazor would be horrible for the users, which is why it is thankfully very rare to see. Javascript seems downright lightweight and unbloated compared to shipping an entire dot net runtime for a crud form app. For what it's worth, I don't care about turning off javaScript or even bloat in general, but this is extreme.

wwilim 3y ago

Blazor Server is even better for corporate intranet applications. Building monitoring/operations apps is insanely easy when you can just connect your UI components directly to a singleton state on the backend. I wouldn't even consider anything else if my job was to make an app for a group of users who all sit in the same room.

hliyan 3y ago

can we not say the same thing about PHP applications?