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A flat per gram CO2 tax would be a great idea, but universal international cooperation is required and this would hurt less developed countries a LOT. At this

A flat per gram CO2 tax would be a great idea, but universal international cooperation is required and this would hurt less developed countries a LOT. At this point lots of warming is inevitable regardless of what (peaceful) things the US and EU do. Africa will get four billion people this century and they want things.

ben_w 3y ago
Africa can skip a lot of our mistakes. PV is cheap, and for places that don't yet have a reliable grid connection, batteries may be cheaper than building a grid (or stabilising it if they have one that's unstable).
- hutzlibu 3y ago
  Yup, the same way they skipped landline phones and started with smartphones right away.
  - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
    They probably won't skip ICE car ownership and dirty industry revolving around mining and manufacturing cheap stuff for the 'green' west.
    - hutzlibu 3y ago
      No, currently they don't. All the old cars not fit for europe anymore, just get send to africa. But if the west would be serious about climate change and developement aid, there would be huge opportunities to do things different.
    - ben_w 3y ago
      I've only visited one place in Africa (Nairobi) an only once (about a decade ago); the cars I saw were all in poor condition and about 20-30 years old when I saw them. Also one of the people we visited had an income so low their annual rent was equivalent to about US$1k, so consider how old and decrepit a vehicle has to be on a western market to be in her price range. There's a huge variation of culture and living standards across the continent, from people much richer than that who buy new cars that are expensive by western standards to people who walk miles to get water from a well because there isn't any plumbing. PV and storage have the advantage of being scalable down to small cheap things that even the poorest can benefit from. Cars, not so much, so for low priced transportation, think instead about e-bicycles and e-motorbikes, and even manual bicycles. Or public transport (but even then, the crowded matatu I was in for one trip looked old).
kergonath 3y ago
Sure, but it will still be significantly worse if the US and the EU do nothing.
pas 3y ago
Compensatory tariffs on trade coming/going into regions that don't implement it. > Africa will get four billion people this century and they want things. That's simply a stronger and stronger argument to make sure they get help and incentives to do it with minimal GHG emissions.

ben_w 3y ago

Africa can skip a lot of our mistakes. PV is cheap, and for places that don't yet have a reliable grid connection, batteries may be cheaper than building a grid (or stabilising it if they have one that's unstable).

hutzlibu 3y ago
Yup, the same way they skipped landline phones and started with smartphones right away.
- FirmwareBurner 3y ago
  They probably won't skip ICE car ownership and dirty industry revolving around mining and manufacturing cheap stuff for the 'green' west.
  - hutzlibu 3y ago
    No, currently they don't. All the old cars not fit for europe anymore, just get send to africa. But if the west would be serious about climate change and developement aid, there would be huge opportunities to do things different.
  - ben_w 3y ago
    I've only visited one place in Africa (Nairobi) an only once (about a decade ago); the cars I saw were all in poor condition and about 20-30 years old when I saw them. Also one of the people we visited had an income so low their annual rent was equivalent to about US$1k, so consider how old and decrepit a vehicle has to be on a western market to be in her price range. There's a huge variation of culture and living standards across the continent, from people much richer than that who buy new cars that are expensive by western standards to people who walk miles to get water from a well because there isn't any plumbing. PV and storage have the advantage of being scalable down to small cheap things that even the poorest can benefit from. Cars, not so much, so for low priced transportation, think instead about e-bicycles and e-motorbikes, and even manual bicycles. Or public transport (but even then, the crowded matatu I was in for one trip looked old).

kergonath 3y ago

Sure, but it will still be significantly worse if the US and the EU do nothing.

pas 3y ago

Compensatory tariffs on trade coming/going into regions that don't implement it. > Africa will get four billion people this century and they want things. That's simply a stronger and stronger argument to make sure they get help and incentives to do it with minimal GHG emissions.