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1. Sure, folks don't trust the government. I'm gonna guess that same sort wants to see ID in some situations. In this case, the government already has the power

1. Sure, folks don't trust the government. I'm gonna guess that same sort wants to see ID in some situations. In this case, the government already has the power. State ID's already exist, and the federal government can get access. You already have a ss# - if someone wanted to mess with you, they'd just code you as dead. "accidentally". 2. Sure, your face isn't a piece of paper. It is still a major identifier, hence the reason you have it on your ID. The DMV already has your picture on file (hence, you don't always have to have a new picture). I'm not sure there are many situations where you could refuse to show ID to the government. 3. That's not a given, depending on the situation.

atoav 3y ago
The advantage of a traditional ID card is that that you usually know when "the readout" of your ID happens. I don't know about you, but my idea of a good society does not involve states reading out the identity of their citizens without them noticing. If they have to do that they are not that good at the whole state-thing. A good ID system has to solve two problems: - Allow verification that the holder of the ID is the owner of the ID (identity verification) - Allow to read out certain facts. Bonus points if this can be done granular, e.g. verify to the other side that you are older than X years without telling them when you were born, where you live and what number a state assigned to you. Extra bonus points if you can see which information is read out and can deny (or even flag) over-eagerly information requests. Note that for the identity verification you just need to know if the biometric identifier of the person holding the ID matches the picture on the ID. You do not know when they were born, what their name is, where they live etc. In a safe digital future this need-to-know-principle is IMO necessary to keep the power symmetry between inividuals and governments/corporations/criminals.
saq7 3y ago
1. “Just because they have power let’s give them more power.” This is a bad argument 2. There certainly are situations where you can refuse. And some one needs to ask you explicitly for it right now. Won’t be true when your face is a government id 3. This is simply not true. When push comes to shove, the feds will win every time

atoav 3y ago

The advantage of a traditional ID card is that that you usually know when "the readout" of your ID happens. I don't know about you, but my idea of a good society does not involve states reading out the identity of their citizens without them noticing. If they have to do that they are not that good at the whole state-thing. A good ID system has to solve two problems: - Allow verification that the holder of the ID is the owner of the ID (identity verification) - Allow to read out certain facts. Bonus points if this can be done granular, e.g. verify to the other side that you are older than X years without telling them when you were born, where you live and what number a state assigned to you. Extra bonus points if you can see which information is read out and can deny (or even flag) over-eagerly information requests. Note that for the identity verification you just need to know if the biometric identifier of the person holding the ID matches the picture on the ID. You do not know when they were born, what their name is, where they live etc. In a safe digital future this need-to-know-principle is IMO necessary to keep the power symmetry between inividuals and governments/corporations/criminals.

saq7 3y ago

1. “Just because they have power let’s give them more power.” This is a bad argument 2. There certainly are situations where you can refuse. And some one needs to ask you explicitly for it right now. Won’t be true when your face is a government id 3. This is simply not true. When push comes to shove, the feds will win every time