4 ms·

I don't have a solar system on my roof yet. But what you describe is something I see with almost every owner of such a system. Suddenly everyone cares about the

I don't have a solar system on my roof yet. But what you describe is something I see with almost every owner of such a system. Suddenly everyone cares about the production and power consumption rates over the day. I think this is a very positive development because I my case I only get reminded of my power consumptions once a year when my supplier asks me to sent him the current value of my electric meter.

distances 3y ago
In many countries you can buy a market priced electricity contract, with hourly (or more frequent) metering even without producing anything. It definitely has the same effect: you are able to lower your bill, but have to be conscious about when your major electricity usage occurs (such as heating, water boiler, sauna).
- 0cf8612b2e1e 3y ago
  Are there fairly tight windows on how much the price can vary ? I can imagine it only takes one blackout event to send the price soaring to 100x standard, destroying any potential savings and potentially inciting ruin.
  - distances 3y ago
    No limits or windows. Last winter with the Russian problem was definitely a tight moment for many Europeans with spot pricing. But it likely still turned out favourable vs. getting a fixed contract with the elevated rates, as the prices plummeted fast again in the spring. At points you do get free electricity (plus transfer and tax). Major blackouts don't really happen, I haven't experienced any in my lifetime yet. I imagine state does have some political pressure to apply limits if something truly ruinous would happen.
  - __MatrixMan__ 3y ago
    This happened in Texas, they had a cold snap and prices jumped from $80/kwh to $8000/kwh. source: https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/texas-power-prices-jump-soaring-demand-heat-wave-2023-08-25/ https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/texas-power-prices-j... Ideally people who aren't well positioned for solar (maybe there's a big tree in their neighbor's yard or something) could instead invest in batteries or other storage mechanisms. Enough people buying low and selling high and you'd see a dampening of those swings. Unfortunately panels are a no brainer and batteries are kind of a pain, so market dynamics of this sort might not help on their own.
    - bruce511 3y ago
      Those prices are for mwh not kwh.
      - __MatrixMan__ 3y ago
        Oops. Too late to edit. Thanks for pointing that out.
__MatrixMan__ 3y ago
I think you're right to highlight the resolution of consumption/production feedback as the driver of the attitude change. My solar company disappeared with the job 95% done, so I can look at my bill and see that it's working, but only day-at-a-time, not hour-at-a-time. To get better data, I can route an ethernet cable to the inverter (or buy a wifi module, which they're suppose to come with, but which didn't get installed). I'll do that eventually, but for now I'm more or less ignorant about what my system is doing. And it's been so far from my mind. Other people with panels want to geek out about it and I'm like: meh, I have different things to think about. It makes me wonder if there are cheaper opportunities to tap into the psychology of energy usage. Sure, it would be great if everybody produced as much as they consume, but until we get there maybe we need like... outlet with little histograms or something.

distances 3y ago

In many countries you can buy a market priced electricity contract, with hourly (or more frequent) metering even without producing anything. It definitely has the same effect: you are able to lower your bill, but have to be conscious about when your major electricity usage occurs (such as heating, water boiler, sauna).

0cf8612b2e1e 3y ago
Are there fairly tight windows on how much the price can vary ? I can imagine it only takes one blackout event to send the price soaring to 100x standard, destroying any potential savings and potentially inciting ruin.
- distances 3y ago
  No limits or windows. Last winter with the Russian problem was definitely a tight moment for many Europeans with spot pricing. But it likely still turned out favourable vs. getting a fixed contract with the elevated rates, as the prices plummeted fast again in the spring. At points you do get free electricity (plus transfer and tax). Major blackouts don't really happen, I haven't experienced any in my lifetime yet. I imagine state does have some political pressure to apply limits if something truly ruinous would happen.
- __MatrixMan__ 3y ago
  This happened in Texas, they had a cold snap and prices jumped from $80/kwh to $8000/kwh. source: https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/texas-power-prices-jump-soaring-demand-heat-wave-2023-08-25/ https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/texas-power-prices-j... Ideally people who aren't well positioned for solar (maybe there's a big tree in their neighbor's yard or something) could instead invest in batteries or other storage mechanisms. Enough people buying low and selling high and you'd see a dampening of those swings. Unfortunately panels are a no brainer and batteries are kind of a pain, so market dynamics of this sort might not help on their own.
  - bruce511 3y ago
    Those prices are for mwh not kwh.
    - __MatrixMan__ 3y ago
      Oops. Too late to edit. Thanks for pointing that out.

__MatrixMan__ 3y ago

I think you're right to highlight the resolution of consumption/production feedback as the driver of the attitude change. My solar company disappeared with the job 95% done, so I can look at my bill and see that it's working, but only day-at-a-time, not hour-at-a-time. To get better data, I can route an ethernet cable to the inverter (or buy a wifi module, which they're suppose to come with, but which didn't get installed). I'll do that eventually, but for now I'm more or less ignorant about what my system is doing. And it's been so far from my mind. Other people with panels want to geek out about it and I'm like: meh, I have different things to think about. It makes me wonder if there are cheaper opportunities to tap into the psychology of energy usage. Sure, it would be great if everybody produced as much as they consume, but until we get there maybe we need like... outlet with little histograms or something.