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Unfortunately, it's a scale. Where do you think criticism ends and censorship begins?: 1. Tweeting that someone is wrong. 2. Tweeting that someone is bad. 5.
by whatshisface 3y ago
Unfortunately, it's a scale. Where do you think criticism ends and censorship begins?:
1. Tweeting that someone is wrong.
2. Tweeting that someone is bad.
5. A corporate Twitter account saying someone is bad.
4. One hundred thousand people tweeting that someone is bad.
6. A company withdrawing advertising from a businessman whose tweets they disagree with.
8. A company withdrawing twitter service from a customer whose tweets they believe are bad.
9. A company withdrawing email service from a customer whose (public) emails they believe are bad.
10. A bank refusing to process donations for a person known to speak things the management of the bank does not want themselves to be associated with.
11. An online marketplace refusing to sell to a public speaker they do not want to be associated with.
12. Most banks and marketplaces refusing to serve an unpopular public speaker, in such a way that they cannot obtain the basic necessities of life.
13. The government imposing a $1 fine.
The constitution kicks in at #13, but most people would cry out at an earlier step.
- spdustin 3y agoUnless you're a member of a protected class, the numbered act violates a law, or the numbered act violates contractual terms: 13.
- whatshisface 3y agoUnder civil rights legislation, we are all members of protected classes. A protected class is defined as a property that you aren't allowed to use when making decisions about how to treat people, not a literal class of protected individuals.
- jcranmer 3y agoWell, technically, this isn't true for age. You're allowed to discriminate based on age if the person is under 40 but not over 40!
- smrtinsert 3y agoWell sure, everything sounds awful if you remove the context. The context is someone is saying anti-Semitic things and others don't have to go along with it or deal with their business. "Do you believe speech should have consequences" is just the type of spin political parties pay for research to manipulate the masses and will always sound murky or confusing or dangerous.
- whatshisface 3y agoI don't think our culture is strong or modern enough to have knives out for antisemitism that won't eventually be used against communism, dissent, pacifism or any of the other things that have been repressed far more stringently at dark times in American history than antisemitism ever has been. Actually, it's more likely that these tools if accepted will be used for antisemitism than against it. I am a little worried by how quickly people forget that antisemitic industrial magnates are a more predictable norm in this country than mysteriously benevolent ones... in fact this whole discussion is about someone who's accused of being one. Who's really going to have their voice cut off in the long run, outvoted minorities or the "moral majority"? It's like a version of "think of the children" with the twist that it's probably going to be used against the people it's claimed to be there to protect.
- deely3 3y agoAlso, "what about childrens"?
- TheCleric 3y agoThey can cry out all they want. That's free speech too. But censorship doesn't happen until 13. The simple explanation is symmetry. Each one of these has a mirror action between the speaker and the responder to the speech. For example #12: The speaker (and their sympathizers) can refuse to use those banks and marketplaces (i.e., a boycott). As well, not allowing the marketplace to do that is forcing them to associate with that speaker. If I run a store, and I decide "I don't want to deal with Mr. X because I don't like how hateful he is.", why should I be forced to do business with him? 13 is the one that has no symmetry. We can not opt out of the government. That's why the line is there.
- whatshisface 3y agoWhat about these cases?: - A company cuts you off from their service, but you can't get it elsewhere because it is patented. - Google closes your @gmail.com address, which you can't obtain elsewhere because they own gmail.com - You build up a following on YouTube, but you end up with three strikes. There are no other long-form video websites with a fraction of the traffic. In all of these cases, you have a limited ability to withdraw from the company, but you are completely replaceable to it.
- TheCleric 3y agoThis is as foolish as saying "It's not fair that John kicked me out of his sub shop just because he doesn't like me. He's the only one serving my favorite sandwich!" You have alternatives as long as you haven't talked yourself into "I have a RIGHT to use someone's particular business.", because you don't.
- whatshisface 3y agoHow about this?: - You're on the south pole, and the single supply depot becomes off-limits to you after a personal dispute with the attendant. Also, I am curious about what you'd suggest as an alternative to YouTube for the content creators that thrive there presently. TikTok doesn't do long form videos.