4 ms·

Smear and slander are not free speech

bigmattystyles 3y ago
You need actual malicious intent - what protects media matters is the same thing that protects most crazed AM broadcasters right? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Times_Co._v._Sullivan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Times_Co._v._Sullivan
- dragontamer 3y ago
  IIRC, "Reckless" is enough for some cases of slander. I don't see how this passes the bar of "Reckless" however.
  - rsynnott 3y ago
    Also, of course, if what was said is _true_, then intent becomes irrelevant.
mikeyouse 3y ago
They actually are free speech, especially if someone considers themselves a "free speech absolutist". I keep hearing from these guys that the answer to speech you don't like is more speech. Musk owns one of the most prominent social media sites in the world - he could have front-paged an article explaining why Media Matters was wrong, the steps they took to 'contrive' their result, etc. etc. But no, after encouragement from some of the worst people in the country, he forum shopped a vexatious lawsuit to get the Federal government to punish a company who's speech Elon didn't like. Extremely revealing. Edit; Just to remind everyone - this most recent spat started when one user posted a super antisemitic screed about how the jews have been pushing white-hatred and that they essentially deserve what they get from the "hordes of minorities" -- to which Elon replied, "You have said the actual truth".
- emmelaich 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - mikeyouse 3y ago
    Ah yes, famously measured scholar, "LibsofTikTok" weighing in on whether someone claiming Jews are importing "hordes of minorities" due to their "hatred of whites" is antisemtic or not. Meanwhile, antisemitic mass murders used the same rationale to justify their actions and tons of white supremacists celebrated Elon's comments. Very normal.
    - emmelaich 3y ago
      Quote, directly please, the sentences that you are criticizing. Also, I have no idea what scholarly has got to do with it. She's an orthodox Jew, she's not going to encourage anti-semitism.
      - mikeyouse 3y ago
        Anyone defending the great replacement bullshit at this point in history should do more reading and less posting, so good luck with that. https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/11/elon-musks-disturbing-truth/676019/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/11/elon-musks...
        emmelaich 3y ago
        You've still not responded in anything like a rational good-faith manner so I'm done.
rsynnott 3y ago
In the US, and in most countries, it’s not slander if it’s true. For a public figure, the standard is quite high; you’re talking a malicious objective lie. And even _then_ it can be hard to prove, as Naughty Old Mr Car knows very well; remember the Thailand thing? So, “figure X is a stupid arsehole”: not slander. “Figure X has been sneaking into my kitchen and stealing the milk”: might be slander, depending.

You need actual malicious intent - what protects media matters is the same thing that protects most crazed AM broadcasters right? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Times_Co._v._Sullivan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Times_Co._v._Sullivan

dragontamer 3y ago
IIRC, "Reckless" is enough for some cases of slander. I don't see how this passes the bar of "Reckless" however.
- rsynnott 3y ago
  Also, of course, if what was said is _true_, then intent becomes irrelevant.

mikeyouse 3y ago

They actually are free speech, especially if someone considers themselves a "free speech absolutist". I keep hearing from these guys that the answer to speech you don't like is more speech. Musk owns one of the most prominent social media sites in the world - he could have front-paged an article explaining why Media Matters was wrong, the steps they took to 'contrive' their result, etc. etc. But no, after encouragement from some of the worst people in the country, he forum shopped a vexatious lawsuit to get the Federal government to punish a company who's speech Elon didn't like. Extremely revealing. Edit; Just to remind everyone - this most recent spat started when one user posted a super antisemitic screed about how the jews have been pushing white-hatred and that they essentially deserve what they get from the "hordes of minorities" -- to which Elon replied, "You have said the actual truth".

emmelaich 3y ago
[flagged]
- mikeyouse 3y ago
  Ah yes, famously measured scholar, "LibsofTikTok" weighing in on whether someone claiming Jews are importing "hordes of minorities" due to their "hatred of whites" is antisemtic or not. Meanwhile, antisemitic mass murders used the same rationale to justify their actions and tons of white supremacists celebrated Elon's comments. Very normal.
  - emmelaich 3y ago
    Quote, directly please, the sentences that you are criticizing. Also, I have no idea what scholarly has got to do with it. She's an orthodox Jew, she's not going to encourage anti-semitism.
    - mikeyouse 3y ago
      Anyone defending the great replacement bullshit at this point in history should do more reading and less posting, so good luck with that. https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/11/elon-musks-disturbing-truth/676019/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/11/elon-musks...
      - emmelaich 3y ago
        You've still not responded in anything like a rational good-faith manner so I'm done.

rsynnott 3y ago

In the US, and in most countries, it’s not slander if it’s true. For a public figure, the standard is quite high; you’re talking a malicious objective lie. And even _then_ it can be hard to prove, as Naughty Old Mr Car knows very well; remember the Thailand thing? So, “figure X is a stupid arsehole”: not slander. “Figure X has been sneaking into my kitchen and stealing the milk”: might be slander, depending.