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I wouldn't attribute to greed for something sufficiently explained by emotions and loyalty. Their CEO who was doing well as far as anyone can tell, was removed

I wouldn't attribute to greed for something sufficiently explained by emotions and loyalty. Their CEO who was doing well as far as anyone can tell, was removed forcibly. It is natural to feel strongly about it.

falserum 3y ago
Loyalty? I could believe closest colleagues, that were in constant contact. But 500… is a bit too much to hold any warmy feelly bonds. Greed is simpler explanation.
bcherry 3y ago
I think the dispute hinges on what it means to be "doing well". In most companies, you can at least all point to the same thing, even if you disagree on how you get there: creating shareholder value. But in this case, the company was doing things that could be seen as good from a shareholder value perspective, but the board has a different priority. It seems they may think that the company was not working on the right mission anymore. This is an unusual set up, so it's not that surprising that unusual things might happen!
- dinobones 3y ago
  Why should we trust them to “align” their chatbots if they couldn’t even align themselves?
- paradite 3y ago
  I've worked for two companies with a board and a CEO. I think generally employees listen to and interact with CEO more than the board. Some of them probably don't know who's on the board before Saturday, like the rest of us.
hsavit1 3y ago
who in their right mind has "emotions" and even "loyalty" for a CEO? and so much to the point that they'd quit their jobs over the CEO's departure? the reality is that people didn't join OpenAI because of sam altman. they joined the company because they got paid (handsomely) to do some interesting work.
- pault 3y ago
  It’s just an anecdote but I quit a job because the CEO fired an extremely good manager that I worked with. If a company has issues, a good person getting fired can lead to a mass exodus. In my case about half of the developers followed closely after me.
  - hsavit1 3y ago
    in that case you were losing your immediate manager so your personal circumstances were about to change significantly. however, in the case of sam altman getting fired, it's not clear that anything that OpenAI is doing is about to change and it's not clear that these devs would suddenly have to change course. Also, it's not like Sam / OpenAI has any integrity anyway - the idea that it's "open" is totally fraudulent.
- alvah 3y ago
  So in every possible scenario it’s wrong to have emotions and loyalty for a CEO, who’s also a human, and may have had a profound, even life-changing effect on you?
  - hsavit1 3y ago
    Seeing your CEO as a deified subject is a serious crisis in the tech industry
    - alvah 3y ago
      Possibly so, but every single CEO in the world is not some evil automaton.
simondotau 3y ago
I wouldn't attribute to emotions and loyalty that which is sufficiently explained by greed.

falserum 3y ago

Loyalty? I could believe closest colleagues, that were in constant contact. But 500… is a bit too much to hold any warmy feelly bonds. Greed is simpler explanation.

bcherry 3y ago

I think the dispute hinges on what it means to be "doing well". In most companies, you can at least all point to the same thing, even if you disagree on how you get there: creating shareholder value. But in this case, the company was doing things that could be seen as good from a shareholder value perspective, but the board has a different priority. It seems they may think that the company was not working on the right mission anymore. This is an unusual set up, so it's not that surprising that unusual things might happen!

dinobones 3y ago
Why should we trust them to “align” their chatbots if they couldn’t even align themselves?
paradite 3y ago
I've worked for two companies with a board and a CEO. I think generally employees listen to and interact with CEO more than the board. Some of them probably don't know who's on the board before Saturday, like the rest of us.

hsavit1 3y ago

who in their right mind has "emotions" and even "loyalty" for a CEO? and so much to the point that they'd quit their jobs over the CEO's departure? the reality is that people didn't join OpenAI because of sam altman. they joined the company because they got paid (handsomely) to do some interesting work.

pault 3y ago
It’s just an anecdote but I quit a job because the CEO fired an extremely good manager that I worked with. If a company has issues, a good person getting fired can lead to a mass exodus. In my case about half of the developers followed closely after me.
- hsavit1 3y ago
  in that case you were losing your immediate manager so your personal circumstances were about to change significantly. however, in the case of sam altman getting fired, it's not clear that anything that OpenAI is doing is about to change and it's not clear that these devs would suddenly have to change course. Also, it's not like Sam / OpenAI has any integrity anyway - the idea that it's "open" is totally fraudulent.
alvah 3y ago
So in every possible scenario it’s wrong to have emotions and loyalty for a CEO, who’s also a human, and may have had a profound, even life-changing effect on you?
- hsavit1 3y ago
  Seeing your CEO as a deified subject is a serious crisis in the tech industry
  - alvah 3y ago
    Possibly so, but every single CEO in the world is not some evil automaton.

simondotau 3y ago

I wouldn't attribute to emotions and loyalty that which is sufficiently explained by greed.