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I don’t get it - aren’t Jews considered white?

by p1esk 3y ago

polygamous_bat 3y ago
I assume ADL considers “white” an euphemism for “Aryans”, in this case.
tstrimple 3y ago
It's complicated. Here's a good breakdown with modern flavor. https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/12/are-jews-white/509453/ https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/12/are-jew... > "From the earliest days of the American republic, Jews were technically considered white, at least in a legal sense. Under the Naturalization Act of 1790, they were considered among the “free white persons” who could become citizens. Later laws limited the number of immigrants from certain countries, restrictions which were in part targeted at Jews. But unlike Asian and African immigrants in the late 19th century, Jews retained a claim to being “Caucasian,” meaning they could win full citizenship status based on their putative race." > "Culturally, though, the racial status of Jews was much more ambiguous. Especially during the peak of Jewish immigration from Eastern Europe in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, many Jews lived in tightly knit urban communities that were distinctly marked as separate from other American cultures: They spoke Yiddish, they published their own newspapers, they followed their own schedule of holidays and celebrations. Those boundaries were further enforced by widespread anti-Semitism: Jews were often excluded from taking certain jobs, joining certain clubs, or moving into certain neighborhoods. Insofar as “whiteness” represents acceptance in America’s dominant culture, Jews were not yet white." From a white supremacist point of view, Jews are "faux whites" and not part of "white culture" that they claim to want to protect.
tatrajim 3y ago
The whole reductionist construct of "whiteness", beloved by so many contemporary scholars has little currency in the minds and hearts of many Americans educated before the wave of critical race theory. Earlier the preferred term for the exclusionary elites was WASP (white anglo-saxon protestants) and large swathes of immigrants from southern and eastern Europe plus the Irish were excluded, including my own ancestors. In the small town midwest world I first encountered it was muted social war between the protestants vs. the catholics, with class nuances, as the former generally were better educated and wealthier. Jews in a nearby city were looked on at the time as a bit exotic, successful, and impressive, as were the few Asians. As I grew up, studied on both coasts, and lived in countries around the world, I have never encountered a country without stark, if at times quite subtle, social and religious divisions. Among those, the current "whiteness", "white privilege" discourse is surely the most ludicrous, with exceptions at every turn. In what world should, say, Portuguese and Finns be lumped together as members of an oppressor class?!
- Forgeties79 3y ago
  > The whole reductionist construct of "whiteness", beloved by so many contemporary scholars has little currency in the minds and hearts of many Americans educated before the wave of critical race theory Whiteness and “white passing” is a bar that is literally centuries old. CRT is not the culprit for its current scrutiny or existence - it has been and continues to be a litmus test for who qualifies as the “in” and “out” groups. As the old adage goes: “we know who we are by who we are not.” It’s an ugly side of humanity and not a recent issue. Simply put, “whiteness” and “white passing” are the result of people who consider themselves white wanting to exclude and/or include certain groups because, generally speaking in the west, being white = wielding social, cultural, and political power.
  - tatrajim 3y ago
    I would suggest the scope and psychological relevance of the now fetishized term of "whiteness" in large parts of America was vanishingly small in the past. It had no significance in the slightest in my community or to my identity. It was all about religion, education, and European place of origin. Moreover, and more interestingly, after I studied the Hausa language at university, and decided to travel on my own to live in Kano, Nigeria, I quickly was labeled by those around me a "bature" or European. But Americans with much darker skin than I were also called "bature", at times to their private despair. It our perceived, shared culture, not our skin color, that made the difference to Kano residents. Having lived and worked in many countries in local institutions, often using the local language professionally, my own skin color and that of those around me is about as important as hair color, eye color, or handedness, that is, largely irrelevant. Culture, intelligence, and ethical standards are so much more important. The obsession with "whiteness" is as creepy as it is toxic.
    - Forgeties79 3y ago
      Ask Polish or Italian Americans if “whiteness” is a modern obsession and about skin color. Hell go watch Gangs of New York, which came out in 2002, and see if the Irish were considered white. This is a tale as old as time. In group, out group. Whiteness isn’t just about your skin color.

I don’t get it - aren’t Jews considered white?

by p1esk 3y ago

I don’t get it - aren’t Jews considered white?

polygamous_bat 3y ago

I assume ADL considers “white” an euphemism for “Aryans”, in this case.

tstrimple 3y ago

It's complicated. Here's a good breakdown with modern flavor. https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/12/are-jews-white/509453/ https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/12/are-jew... > "From the earliest days of the American republic, Jews were technically considered white, at least in a legal sense. Under the Naturalization Act of 1790, they were considered among the “free white persons” who could become citizens. Later laws limited the number of immigrants from certain countries, restrictions which were in part targeted at Jews. But unlike Asian and African immigrants in the late 19th century, Jews retained a claim to being “Caucasian,” meaning they could win full citizenship status based on their putative race." > "Culturally, though, the racial status of Jews was much more ambiguous. Especially during the peak of Jewish immigration from Eastern Europe in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, many Jews lived in tightly knit urban communities that were distinctly marked as separate from other American cultures: They spoke Yiddish, they published their own newspapers, they followed their own schedule of holidays and celebrations. Those boundaries were further enforced by widespread anti-Semitism: Jews were often excluded from taking certain jobs, joining certain clubs, or moving into certain neighborhoods. Insofar as “whiteness” represents acceptance in America’s dominant culture, Jews were not yet white." From a white supremacist point of view, Jews are "faux whites" and not part of "white culture" that they claim to want to protect.

tatrajim 3y ago

The whole reductionist construct of "whiteness", beloved by so many contemporary scholars has little currency in the minds and hearts of many Americans educated before the wave of critical race theory. Earlier the preferred term for the exclusionary elites was WASP (white anglo-saxon protestants) and large swathes of immigrants from southern and eastern Europe plus the Irish were excluded, including my own ancestors. In the small town midwest world I first encountered it was muted social war between the protestants vs. the catholics, with class nuances, as the former generally were better educated and wealthier. Jews in a nearby city were looked on at the time as a bit exotic, successful, and impressive, as were the few Asians. As I grew up, studied on both coasts, and lived in countries around the world, I have never encountered a country without stark, if at times quite subtle, social and religious divisions. Among those, the current "whiteness", "white privilege" discourse is surely the most ludicrous, with exceptions at every turn. In what world should, say, Portuguese and Finns be lumped together as members of an oppressor class?!

Forgeties79 3y ago
> The whole reductionist construct of "whiteness", beloved by so many contemporary scholars has little currency in the minds and hearts of many Americans educated before the wave of critical race theory Whiteness and “white passing” is a bar that is literally centuries old. CRT is not the culprit for its current scrutiny or existence - it has been and continues to be a litmus test for who qualifies as the “in” and “out” groups. As the old adage goes: “we know who we are by who we are not.” It’s an ugly side of humanity and not a recent issue. Simply put, “whiteness” and “white passing” are the result of people who consider themselves white wanting to exclude and/or include certain groups because, generally speaking in the west, being white = wielding social, cultural, and political power.
- tatrajim 3y ago
  I would suggest the scope and psychological relevance of the now fetishized term of "whiteness" in large parts of America was vanishingly small in the past. It had no significance in the slightest in my community or to my identity. It was all about religion, education, and European place of origin. Moreover, and more interestingly, after I studied the Hausa language at university, and decided to travel on my own to live in Kano, Nigeria, I quickly was labeled by those around me a "bature" or European. But Americans with much darker skin than I were also called "bature", at times to their private despair. It our perceived, shared culture, not our skin color, that made the difference to Kano residents. Having lived and worked in many countries in local institutions, often using the local language professionally, my own skin color and that of those around me is about as important as hair color, eye color, or handedness, that is, largely irrelevant. Culture, intelligence, and ethical standards are so much more important. The obsession with "whiteness" is as creepy as it is toxic.
  - Forgeties79 3y ago
    Ask Polish or Italian Americans if “whiteness” is a modern obsession and about skin color. Hell go watch Gangs of New York, which came out in 2002, and see if the Irish were considered white. This is a tale as old as time. In group, out group. Whiteness isn’t just about your skin color.