31 ms·

Seems the free market is doing it's job, but I assume Musk will of course see it differently and start suing right, left, and center.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
Hamuko 3y ago
What even is the legal case that he could be making?
- misterbwong 3y ago
  I mean, there's his Media Matters lawsuit for one: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2023/nov/18/elon-musk-to-file-thermonuclear-lawsuit-as-advertisers-desert-x https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2023/nov/18/elon-musk...
  - dragontamer 3y ago
    It's not a lawsuit until he files it. It's just random words from the Twitter king for now. I think that it will be a difficult case and that the Lawyers will shy away from trying to go through with that insanity. Legal threats from a non-lawyer have very, very low risk. People only pay attention when an actual lawyer is involved.
    - JPKab 3y ago
      Here's the now filed lawsuit: https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/24172809-x-v-media-matters-complaint-filestamped-1 https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/24172809-x-v-media-m...
  - ecommerceguy 3y ago
    And he has a very strong case it seems.
    - aw1621107 3y ago
      On what grounds?
  - frob 3y ago
    What lawsuit? All I see is a scared CEO flapping his lips about using the legal system to chill the free speech of a group he does not like for calling out his Naziesque rhetoric. It is now well past "The split second court opens on Monday," and yet, no lawsuit. It's almost like he doesn't actually have a case.
    - JPKab 3y ago
      [flagged]
      - asfbnionio 3y ago
        [flagged]
        klyrs 3y ago
        > Twitter paid neo-Nazis to write racist propaganda. Hold on, I'm all about dumping on Musk and Twitter and now their unholy hate-spawn X (which I still call twitter for reasons beyond but not excluding spite)... but I'm gonna need to see a source for that one.
        asfbnionio 3y ago
        Sure! https://www.mediamatters.org/twitter/pro-hitler-and-holocaust-denier-account-x-has-paid-me-3000-ad-revenue-sharing https://www.mediamatters.org/twitter/pro-hitler-and-holocaus... This seems like merely ineptitude rather than malice, but it happened.
        JPKab 3y ago
        [flagged]
        Sirizarry 3y ago
        [flagged]
      - 3y ago
  - dragonwriter 3y ago
    When you can provide a court and a docket number for that lawsuit, we can treat it a real thing that exists rather than empty threat that doesn't because it would have no merit and probably also subject Musk to penalties under the applicable anti-SLAPP laws.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - TheCleric 3y ago
      He filed it in Texas, possibly to avoid anti-SLAPP laws.
  - sillywalk 3y ago
    It doesn't look like The "thermonuclear lawsuit" he was going to launch the "split second court opens", has happened. /S/ I am shocked, shocked I say. Musk usually seems so cool headed and not prone to constantly spewing hyperbole and bullshit.
    - JPKab 3y ago
      Lawsuit here https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/24172809-x-v-media-matters-complaint-filestamped-1 https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/24172809-x-v-media-m...
      - sillywalk 3y ago
        Well shut my mouth, I thought it was a bluff. Thanks for the link. ps. this isn't sarcasm.
- asfbnionio 3y ago
  There isn't one. Truth is a defense to defamation in the USA. Media Matters can call Musk an anti-Semite and say Twitter pays Nazis to write propaganda and there's nothing anyone can do to stop them, because both of those things are true.
  - TheCleric 3y ago
    That is true, however Musk's suit is likely even more difficult to prove than that. It's not good enough that it be provably false (and the law puts a heavy emphasis on the word provably there). For a public figure suing anyone over claims like this, he would need to prove "actual malice" which typically means that not only was it provably false, but that the entity making the claim KNEW it was false, and decided to say it anyway. So Musk will likely have to prove that Media Matters article was a matter of fact (and not an opinion), prove that the fact they claimed was false, and prove that they knew it was false before publishing it. That's a VERY high bar.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
shiftpgdn 3y ago
Nature abhors a vacuum. If the ad displays are worthwhile then advertisers will be drawn to use X regardless of the audience or what their ads are displayed next to. There is a porn shop in my city with a Coca-Cola billboard above it because it's on the most major thoroughfare.
- edmundsauto 3y ago
  Probably true in direct response marketing, possibly unknowable in brand marketing.
- acdha 3y ago
  That’s not a valid analogy: everyone knows that the billboard is separate from the shop renting the space below and Coca Cola doesn’t pay the porn shop to drive traffic to their ad. Twitter has revenue sharing and also uses that revenue to provide free services so there’s no way for an advertiser to avoid their money benefitting the extremist groups who use the service. Coca Cola paying for the billboard on the roof doesn’t mean the porn shop isn’t paying rent. The porn shop is also unlikely to have anything on the front of their shops which is even remotely comparable to the tweets causing advertisers to leave. For all that religious nuts go on about it, porn is mainstream even in conservative areas and the ads will talk about pleasing your wife, not harming anyone. If they put up ads talking about how mixed-race sex should be punished or saying that women should be assaulted, the comparison would hold up more - and so would the reaction as they lost their business permits and lease.
aniforprez 3y ago
Has he ever actually sued any of the people he's threatened? This is not the first time he's thrown around a lot of bluster with nothing to show for it
- perihelions 3y ago
  Yes: he's filed suit against the "Center for Countering Digital Hate", also for publicly criticizing the way he runs Twitter. https://www.techdirt.com/2023/08/01/free-speech-absolutist-elon-musk-files-obvious-slapp-suit-against-non-profit-critic/ https://www.techdirt.com/2023/08/01/free-speech-absolutist-e... https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.cand.416212/gov.uscourts.cand.416212.1.0_1.pdf https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.cand.41... (plaintiff's complaint) https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.cand.416212/gov.uscourts.cand.416212.47.0_1.pdf https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.cand.41... (defendant's anti-SLAPP motion)
  - frob 3y ago
    He's an absolutist in his belief that he should be free to sue anyone whose speech about him he does not like.
    - jsbisviewtiful 3y ago
      It would be nice if others start counter-suing him personally and not his companies. Don’t make the employees suffer for his tactics.
- fbdab103 3y ago
  Did he also ever take legal action after the supposed stalker incident which was claimed to be a result of the jet tracker?
- TheCleric 3y ago
  In this specific round of bluster, he has filed suit against Media Matters.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
renlo 3y ago
sounds more like a cartel than a "free market"

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

Hamuko 3y ago

What even is the legal case that he could be making?

misterbwong 3y ago
I mean, there's his Media Matters lawsuit for one: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2023/nov/18/elon-musk-to-file-thermonuclear-lawsuit-as-advertisers-desert-x https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2023/nov/18/elon-musk...
- dragontamer 3y ago
  It's not a lawsuit until he files it. It's just random words from the Twitter king for now. I think that it will be a difficult case and that the Lawyers will shy away from trying to go through with that insanity. Legal threats from a non-lawyer have very, very low risk. People only pay attention when an actual lawyer is involved.
  - JPKab 3y ago
    Here's the now filed lawsuit: https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/24172809-x-v-media-matters-complaint-filestamped-1 https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/24172809-x-v-media-m...
- ecommerceguy 3y ago
  And he has a very strong case it seems.
  - aw1621107 3y ago
    On what grounds?
- frob 3y ago
  What lawsuit? All I see is a scared CEO flapping his lips about using the legal system to chill the free speech of a group he does not like for calling out his Naziesque rhetoric. It is now well past "The split second court opens on Monday," and yet, no lawsuit. It's almost like he doesn't actually have a case.
  - JPKab 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - asfbnionio 3y ago
      [flagged]
      - klyrs 3y ago
        > Twitter paid neo-Nazis to write racist propaganda. Hold on, I'm all about dumping on Musk and Twitter and now their unholy hate-spawn X (which I still call twitter for reasons beyond but not excluding spite)... but I'm gonna need to see a source for that one.
        asfbnionio 3y ago
        Sure! https://www.mediamatters.org/twitter/pro-hitler-and-holocaust-denier-account-x-has-paid-me-3000-ad-revenue-sharing https://www.mediamatters.org/twitter/pro-hitler-and-holocaus... This seems like merely ineptitude rather than malice, but it happened.
      - JPKab 3y ago
        [flagged]
        Sirizarry 3y ago
        [flagged]
    - 3y ago
- dragonwriter 3y ago
  When you can provide a court and a docket number for that lawsuit, we can treat it a real thing that exists rather than empty threat that doesn't because it would have no merit and probably also subject Musk to penalties under the applicable anti-SLAPP laws.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - TheCleric 3y ago
    He filed it in Texas, possibly to avoid anti-SLAPP laws.
- sillywalk 3y ago
  It doesn't look like The "thermonuclear lawsuit" he was going to launch the "split second court opens", has happened. /S/ I am shocked, shocked I say. Musk usually seems so cool headed and not prone to constantly spewing hyperbole and bullshit.
  - JPKab 3y ago
    Lawsuit here https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/24172809-x-v-media-matters-complaint-filestamped-1 https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/24172809-x-v-media-m...
    - sillywalk 3y ago
      Well shut my mouth, I thought it was a bluff. Thanks for the link. ps. this isn't sarcasm.
asfbnionio 3y ago
There isn't one. Truth is a defense to defamation in the USA. Media Matters can call Musk an anti-Semite and say Twitter pays Nazis to write propaganda and there's nothing anyone can do to stop them, because both of those things are true.
- TheCleric 3y ago
  That is true, however Musk's suit is likely even more difficult to prove than that. It's not good enough that it be provably false (and the law puts a heavy emphasis on the word provably there). For a public figure suing anyone over claims like this, he would need to prove "actual malice" which typically means that not only was it provably false, but that the entity making the claim KNEW it was false, and decided to say it anyway. So Musk will likely have to prove that Media Matters article was a matter of fact (and not an opinion), prove that the fact they claimed was false, and prove that they knew it was false before publishing it. That's a VERY high bar.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

shiftpgdn 3y ago

Nature abhors a vacuum. If the ad displays are worthwhile then advertisers will be drawn to use X regardless of the audience or what their ads are displayed next to. There is a porn shop in my city with a Coca-Cola billboard above it because it's on the most major thoroughfare.

edmundsauto 3y ago
Probably true in direct response marketing, possibly unknowable in brand marketing.
acdha 3y ago
That’s not a valid analogy: everyone knows that the billboard is separate from the shop renting the space below and Coca Cola doesn’t pay the porn shop to drive traffic to their ad. Twitter has revenue sharing and also uses that revenue to provide free services so there’s no way for an advertiser to avoid their money benefitting the extremist groups who use the service. Coca Cola paying for the billboard on the roof doesn’t mean the porn shop isn’t paying rent. The porn shop is also unlikely to have anything on the front of their shops which is even remotely comparable to the tweets causing advertisers to leave. For all that religious nuts go on about it, porn is mainstream even in conservative areas and the ads will talk about pleasing your wife, not harming anyone. If they put up ads talking about how mixed-race sex should be punished or saying that women should be assaulted, the comparison would hold up more - and so would the reaction as they lost their business permits and lease.

aniforprez 3y ago

Has he ever actually sued any of the people he's threatened? This is not the first time he's thrown around a lot of bluster with nothing to show for it

perihelions 3y ago
Yes: he's filed suit against the "Center for Countering Digital Hate", also for publicly criticizing the way he runs Twitter. https://www.techdirt.com/2023/08/01/free-speech-absolutist-elon-musk-files-obvious-slapp-suit-against-non-profit-critic/ https://www.techdirt.com/2023/08/01/free-speech-absolutist-e... https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.cand.416212/gov.uscourts.cand.416212.1.0_1.pdf https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.cand.41... (plaintiff's complaint) https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.cand.416212/gov.uscourts.cand.416212.47.0_1.pdf https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.cand.41... (defendant's anti-SLAPP motion)
- frob 3y ago
  He's an absolutist in his belief that he should be free to sue anyone whose speech about him he does not like.
  - jsbisviewtiful 3y ago
    It would be nice if others start counter-suing him personally and not his companies. Don’t make the employees suffer for his tactics.
fbdab103 3y ago
Did he also ever take legal action after the supposed stalker incident which was claimed to be a result of the jet tracker?
TheCleric 3y ago
In this specific round of bluster, he has filed suit against Media Matters.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

renlo 3y ago

sounds more like a cartel than a "free market"