5 ms·

That doesn't capture the range of their dark patterns. I am literally testing this now. I am on Delta website going through the booking process (redirected form

That doesn't capture the range of their dark patterns. I am literally testing this now. I am on Delta website going through the booking process (redirected form Google Flights). The price at Google Flights was $578. Delta website is showing that 1 seat is available (at this price). When it prompts to select the seat there are no seats available at this price. I am offered to upgrade to Comfort+ for $60. I am already 10 min into the process. And just to preempt your possible argument: when I go to the previous page it still shows that 1 seat is available at this price.

hammock 3y ago
[flagged]
- hanzmanner 3y ago
  For a tech forum it is surprising how many commenters in this thread don’t understand what are “dark patterns”. It’s not fraud. Of course eventually I will see the total cost. It’s about misleading the customer in the process. They don’t have to trick me into paying more, they just need to make me progress far enough that I will choose to pay more to save my own time.
- happymellon 3y ago
  Bait and switch is a dark pattern.
- parl_match 3y ago
  It is literally the definition of a dark pattern lmao whenver dark patterns come up, and people defend them, i always wonder to myself "who do you work for"
squeaky-clean 3y ago
Google Flights runs on a cache, so it can be out of date. This is mentioned in their fine print somewhere. Delta's own website should be accurate though. I think this is actually legally required. If you can take some screenshots and contact customer support I guarantee you someone will get yelled at, and you may get some sort of compensation. I know this because I was once the person who would get yelled at (not for Delta). If you could include the time and your local timezone, as well as the market (your country or VPN country) that would help out the person who's going to get yelled at. Just to clarify, I say "yelled at" as a bit of an exaggeration. But these customer reports were always a big deal where I worked. It usually boiled down to a stale cache issue. But because the airline controls the cache and ticket inventory[0], cache invalidation should be perfect, sans a few ms latency. [0] Kind of... Not really. It's a mess how the systems really work. But they do get messages for each ticket purchase.
- hanzmanner 3y ago
  I have shared the screenshots in this thread. https://imgur.com/a/X923fSo https://imgur.com/a/X923fSo I don't trust Delta enough to have any desire to reach out to them.
  - arcticbull 3y ago
    Your use of the word “seat” is overloaded - the one in fare search buys you passage on the plane. More formally we’d call that a ticket. That doesn’t mean you’ll be able to assign a seat during checkout if the ones available for complimentary assignment have already been assigned by others. And that’s not a problem, if you don’t care where specifically you sit. Once check-in opens you’ll be assigned a seat. Including from the inventory that normally requires you pay extra. Without an additional fee. If you do care where you sit you can elect to pay extra in advance. A “seat” in the search results is booking passage on the plane. You are looking at optional, complementary advance assignments. Those are taken at the moment. I hope that clears it up! I wouldn’t call this a dark pattern - some airlines like Southwest don’t even let you select seats at all! Some airlines require you pay a fee for any and all seats, mostly low-cost carriers. This is just an example of unbundling. If you value a specific seat assignment you can pay for it. If you don’t, no problem, your flight is cheaper.
    - hanzmanner 3y ago
      That's not what the clear explicit agreement between the two parties is in this case. Why do sellers list any product details at all? Both Google and Delta have this in writing: I am paying for a seat I can select. If that's not included in the sale - no problem, don't list it. I am not against seats being sold unassigned. I am not against charging an additional fee for being able to select a specific seat. And this argument is not about that. The dark pattern is listing "free seat selection" and "1 seat available" before I choose this flight and agree to continue the booking process, while then changing the value of the product by asking me to pay an additional fee for the seat selection. The seats in the main cabin are available (see screenshots). They are just not available for me to select for free. If Delta knows that there are no selectable seats at this price left on the flight, why do they include that in the listing? I am really not sure where this disconnect is coming from. I am not arguing against all additional fees, not arguing against seating being assigned at check-in. Just make it clear before I commit to the process, so I don't waste time. This is the definition of a dark pattern.

hammock 3y ago

[flagged]

hanzmanner 3y ago
For a tech forum it is surprising how many commenters in this thread don’t understand what are “dark patterns”. It’s not fraud. Of course eventually I will see the total cost. It’s about misleading the customer in the process. They don’t have to trick me into paying more, they just need to make me progress far enough that I will choose to pay more to save my own time.
happymellon 3y ago
Bait and switch is a dark pattern.
parl_match 3y ago
It is literally the definition of a dark pattern lmao whenver dark patterns come up, and people defend them, i always wonder to myself "who do you work for"

squeaky-clean 3y ago

Google Flights runs on a cache, so it can be out of date. This is mentioned in their fine print somewhere. Delta's own website should be accurate though. I think this is actually legally required. If you can take some screenshots and contact customer support I guarantee you someone will get yelled at, and you may get some sort of compensation. I know this because I was once the person who would get yelled at (not for Delta). If you could include the time and your local timezone, as well as the market (your country or VPN country) that would help out the person who's going to get yelled at. Just to clarify, I say "yelled at" as a bit of an exaggeration. But these customer reports were always a big deal where I worked. It usually boiled down to a stale cache issue. But because the airline controls the cache and ticket inventory[0], cache invalidation should be perfect, sans a few ms latency. [0] Kind of... Not really. It's a mess how the systems really work. But they do get messages for each ticket purchase.

hanzmanner 3y ago
I have shared the screenshots in this thread. https://imgur.com/a/X923fSo https://imgur.com/a/X923fSo I don't trust Delta enough to have any desire to reach out to them.
- arcticbull 3y ago
  Your use of the word “seat” is overloaded - the one in fare search buys you passage on the plane. More formally we’d call that a ticket. That doesn’t mean you’ll be able to assign a seat during checkout if the ones available for complimentary assignment have already been assigned by others. And that’s not a problem, if you don’t care where specifically you sit. Once check-in opens you’ll be assigned a seat. Including from the inventory that normally requires you pay extra. Without an additional fee. If you do care where you sit you can elect to pay extra in advance. A “seat” in the search results is booking passage on the plane. You are looking at optional, complementary advance assignments. Those are taken at the moment. I hope that clears it up! I wouldn’t call this a dark pattern - some airlines like Southwest don’t even let you select seats at all! Some airlines require you pay a fee for any and all seats, mostly low-cost carriers. This is just an example of unbundling. If you value a specific seat assignment you can pay for it. If you don’t, no problem, your flight is cheaper.
  - hanzmanner 3y ago
    That's not what the clear explicit agreement between the two parties is in this case. Why do sellers list any product details at all? Both Google and Delta have this in writing: I am paying for a seat I can select. If that's not included in the sale - no problem, don't list it. I am not against seats being sold unassigned. I am not against charging an additional fee for being able to select a specific seat. And this argument is not about that. The dark pattern is listing "free seat selection" and "1 seat available" before I choose this flight and agree to continue the booking process, while then changing the value of the product by asking me to pay an additional fee for the seat selection. The seats in the main cabin are available (see screenshots). They are just not available for me to select for free. If Delta knows that there are no selectable seats at this price left on the flight, why do they include that in the listing? I am really not sure where this disconnect is coming from. I am not arguing against all additional fees, not arguing against seating being assigned at check-in. Just make it clear before I commit to the process, so I don't waste time. This is the definition of a dark pattern.