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Very few are talking about Adam D'Angelo's insane conflicts of interest. Beyond ChatGPT being a killshot for Quora, the recently launched ChatGPT store puts Ada

Very few are talking about Adam D'Angelo's insane conflicts of interest. Beyond ChatGPT being a killshot for Quora, the recently launched ChatGPT store puts Adam's recent effort, Poe, under existential threat. OpenAI Dev Day has been cited as the final straw, but is it mere coincidence that the event and subsequent fallout occurred less than a week after Poe announced their AI creator economy? Adam had no incentive to kill OpenAI, but he had every incentive to get the org to reign in their commercialization efforts and to instead focus on research and safety initiatives, taking the heat off Poe while still providing it with the necessary API access to power the product. I don't think it's crazy to speculate that Adam might have drummed up concern amongst the board over Sam's "dangerous" shipping velocity, sweeping up Ilya in the hysteria who now seems to regret taking part. Sam and Greg have both signaled positive sentiment towards Ilya, which points to them possibly believing he was misguided.

brianjking 3y ago
I've been calling this since Friday all over this site and Twitter. It makes absolutely no sense why he's on this board given his direct competition between GPTs and the Revenue sharing versus Poe's creators monetization platform/build your own bot. The Poe creators monetization is a clear conflict of interest.
- tsunamifury 3y ago
  Except it makes obvious sense if you know anything about the technology and the training system quora potentially could become.
  - ianhawes 3y ago
    Surely the OpenAI developers know how to append `?shared=1` to Quora URLs.
    - wand3r 3y ago
      I never use quora so I personally just found out from your comment[1] that you can bypass login. Helpful if I need Quora. [0] Arrays start at 0 [1] It encouraged me to google it: https://meta.stackexchange.com/questions/213726/adding-share-1-at-the-end-of-the-quora-urls-to-skip-the-login-window https://meta.stackexchange.com/questions/213726/adding-share...
  - bastawhiz 3y ago
    > the training system quora potentially could become That ship sailed years ago. I was a Quora "Top Writer" for a few years in a row until I quit. I stopped using Quora because they did a complete 180 and stopped their writers program (read: the people answering questions) and instead started programs to incentivize people to ask questions. Almost overnight, people were algorithmically creating questions like "What is 23 times 154?" and spamming low-value questions that are trivially google-able. In the last year, answers are obviously AI generated (perhaps ironically, most by ChatGPT). All in all, the damage is mostly done. Quora has sunk to a level that even Yahoo Answers did not sink to in terms of spammy questions, spammy/bad/incorrect/low-value answers, and a practically unusable UI.
    - ghaff 3y ago
      Quora went from being pretty interesting early on to still having some gems in a sea of mostly dross to just meh.
- deleted 3y ago
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mullingitover 3y ago
D'Angelo's presence on the OpenAI board definitely feels like having a combination buggy whip magnate and competing motor company CEO on the board of Ford Motor Company in 1904.
- gaogao 3y ago
  So sadly can't find a buggy whip magnate on the Ford board, but a fun little gem from Ford's initial bankroller Alexander Y. Malcomson > In 1905, to hedge his bets, Malcomson formed Aerocar to produce luxury automobiles.[1] However, other board members at Ford became upset, because the Aerocar would compete directly with the Model K.
tempsy 3y ago
The other thing is he's already rich and can make bridge burning decisions like this because he doesn't exactly need help from anyone who might be upset with him about his decision.
macspoofing 3y ago
>Very few are talking about Adam D'Angelo's insane conflicts of interest ... he had every incentive to get the org to reign in their commercialization efforts and to instead focus on research and safety initiatives Given the original mission statement of OpenAI, is that really a conflict of interest? Having said that, it's clear that the 'Open' in 'OpenAI' is at best a misnomer. OpenAI, today, is a standard commercial entity, with a non-profit vestigial organ that will now be excised.
- highduc 3y ago
  >with a non-profit vestigial organ that will now be excised. If this happens I'm not trusting any other non-profit org ever again.
  - wand3r 3y ago
    It pays to be skeptical but this was a super unique situation with cofounders with different goals and a very unique (absurd?) structure. Wikipedia and Wikimedia worked. Lets not throw the baby out with the bathwater.
    - zozbot234 3y ago
      Wikipedia is mostly written by its users though. Wikimedia is just a glorified site host, if it went rouge the encyclopedia could simply be forked and hosted elsewhere. Microsoft has the right to build on the GPT trained models but others do not, they'd have to start from scratch.
  - vasco 3y ago
    You shouldn't trust corporate entities, you should trust the people that run them. The people in charge can always do what they want, at least for a while.
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hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
I agree with pretty much everything you've written except "Very few are talking about Adam D'Angelo's insane conflicts of interest." I've seen tons of comments all over the HN OpenAI stories about this, to the point where a lot of them feel unnecessarily conspiratorial. Like your second paragraph, I don't believe that you need to get to the level of a "D'Angelo wanted to kill OpenAI" conspiracy. Whenever there is a flat out, objective conflict of interest like there obviously is in this case, it doesn't matter what D'Angelo's true motivations are. The conflict of interest should be in and of itself a cause for D'Angelo to have resigned. I mean, Reid Hoffman (who likely would have prevented all this insanity) resigned from the OpenAI board just in March because he had a similar conflict of interest: https://www.semafor.com/article/11/19/2023/reid-hoffman-was-privately-unhappy-about-leaving-openais-board https://www.semafor.com/article/11/19/2023/reid-hoffman-was-...
- firejake308 3y ago
  In regards to > Very few are talking about Adam D'Angelo's insane conflicts of interest I think most of HN has been focusing on Ilya, but after he flipped, I think that leaves Adam as our prime suspect
freedomben 3y ago
This is a very interesting observation, and given Quora's decision-making history, I think acknowledging the conflicts-of-interest is wise. I suspect that this whole thing is going to be a little radioactive against the board members. It should at least, as the board basically self-destructed their organization. Even if that wasn't the intent, outcomes matter and I hope people consider this when considering putting one of these people in leadership.
martythemaniak 3y ago
Yep, this is the most likely explanation now. There's only four people: - McCauley: Doesn't seen to have a high profile or the standing required to initiate and drive this - Toner: Fun to speculate she's a government agent to bring down OpenAI, but in reality also doesn't seem to have the profile and motive to drive this. - Sutskever - he was the #1 suspect over the weekend, has the drive, profile and motivation to pull this off, but now (Monday) deeply regrets it. - D'Angelo - has the motive, drive, and profile to do this. Best guess: Quora is a ZIRP Shitco and is in trouble, Poe is gonna get steamrolled by OAI and Adam needs a bailout. Why not get rid of Sam, get bought out by OAI and become its CEO? So he convinces Ilya to act on some pre-existing concerns, then uses Ilya's credibility to get Toner and McCauley onboard. It's really the only thing that makes sense anymore.
- tucnak 3y ago
  What do you mean fun to speculate? I think there's no doubt that Toner is not for real and Georgetown Center for Security and Emerging Technology smells fine, too, I mean their mission is quite literally "Providing decision-makers with data-driven analysis on the security implications of emerging technologies." And it's not even much of a secret that she's reportedly wielding "influence comparable to USAF colonel"[1]. What's unknown is what role she— as a government agent— played in exploiting Sutskever and the board and to what exact end? [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38330158#38330819 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38330158#38330819
  - Apocryphon 3y ago
    I thought the speculation was that McCauley was the government agent, not Toner?
    - tucnak 3y ago
      Not that I'm aware, please share if there's useful input! Have you read the thread that I linked to? This particular communication had me convinced, look up OP.
siva7 3y ago
This seems to be the most likely explanation of the events. People say how incredibly smart Adam is. That might be true. Nevertheless being smart doesn't mean he is a good fit for a board seat with such a backstabbing attitude. On the other side Helen, having a fancy title "Director of Strategy at Georgetown’s Center for Security and Emerging Technology" without much substance if you look closely and Tash, both who got their seat as a donor exchange by organisations and people they are closely connected with are clinging to their seats like super glue when almost all employees signed a letter that they don't want to be governed by them anymore. This board is a masterpiece of fragile egos who accidentally got into the governance of a major company without the ability to contribute anything of substance back. Instead they are being remembered for one of the greatest board screw-ups in business history.
sertbdfgbnfgsd 3y ago
> sweeping up Ilya in the hysteria who now seems to regret taking part Awww poor Ilya is innocent. He didn't see it coming. You shouldn't expect that from him!!
- founderspend 3y ago
  Maybe not innocent, but human. Many have spoken to his integrity, and given his apology (and the silence of the rest of the board), I'm inclined to believe he isn't so bad of a guy.
  - vasco 3y ago
    To me it just sounds like someone who was in a failed coup. Of course you'd apologize and try to stay in, specially if you're scared of progress of AI and you want to stop it from within. I don't see how he can remain there.

brianjking 3y ago

I've been calling this since Friday all over this site and Twitter. It makes absolutely no sense why he's on this board given his direct competition between GPTs and the Revenue sharing versus Poe's creators monetization platform/build your own bot. The Poe creators monetization is a clear conflict of interest.

tsunamifury 3y ago
Except it makes obvious sense if you know anything about the technology and the training system quora potentially could become.
- ianhawes 3y ago
  Surely the OpenAI developers know how to append `?shared=1` to Quora URLs.
  - wand3r 3y ago
    I never use quora so I personally just found out from your comment[1] that you can bypass login. Helpful if I need Quora. [0] Arrays start at 0 [1] It encouraged me to google it: https://meta.stackexchange.com/questions/213726/adding-share-1-at-the-end-of-the-quora-urls-to-skip-the-login-window https://meta.stackexchange.com/questions/213726/adding-share...
- bastawhiz 3y ago
  > the training system quora potentially could become That ship sailed years ago. I was a Quora "Top Writer" for a few years in a row until I quit. I stopped using Quora because they did a complete 180 and stopped their writers program (read: the people answering questions) and instead started programs to incentivize people to ask questions. Almost overnight, people were algorithmically creating questions like "What is 23 times 154?" and spamming low-value questions that are trivially google-able. In the last year, answers are obviously AI generated (perhaps ironically, most by ChatGPT). All in all, the damage is mostly done. Quora has sunk to a level that even Yahoo Answers did not sink to in terms of spammy questions, spammy/bad/incorrect/low-value answers, and a practically unusable UI.
  - ghaff 3y ago
    Quora went from being pretty interesting early on to still having some gems in a sea of mostly dross to just meh.
deleted 3y ago
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mullingitover 3y ago

D'Angelo's presence on the OpenAI board definitely feels like having a combination buggy whip magnate and competing motor company CEO on the board of Ford Motor Company in 1904.

gaogao 3y ago
So sadly can't find a buggy whip magnate on the Ford board, but a fun little gem from Ford's initial bankroller Alexander Y. Malcomson > In 1905, to hedge his bets, Malcomson formed Aerocar to produce luxury automobiles.[1] However, other board members at Ford became upset, because the Aerocar would compete directly with the Model K.

tempsy 3y ago

The other thing is he's already rich and can make bridge burning decisions like this because he doesn't exactly need help from anyone who might be upset with him about his decision.

macspoofing 3y ago

>Very few are talking about Adam D'Angelo's insane conflicts of interest ... he had every incentive to get the org to reign in their commercialization efforts and to instead focus on research and safety initiatives Given the original mission statement of OpenAI, is that really a conflict of interest? Having said that, it's clear that the 'Open' in 'OpenAI' is at best a misnomer. OpenAI, today, is a standard commercial entity, with a non-profit vestigial organ that will now be excised.

highduc 3y ago
>with a non-profit vestigial organ that will now be excised. If this happens I'm not trusting any other non-profit org ever again.
- wand3r 3y ago
  It pays to be skeptical but this was a super unique situation with cofounders with different goals and a very unique (absurd?) structure. Wikipedia and Wikimedia worked. Lets not throw the baby out with the bathwater.
  - zozbot234 3y ago
    Wikipedia is mostly written by its users though. Wikimedia is just a glorified site host, if it went rouge the encyclopedia could simply be forked and hosted elsewhere. Microsoft has the right to build on the GPT trained models but others do not, they'd have to start from scratch.
- vasco 3y ago
  You shouldn't trust corporate entities, you should trust the people that run them. The people in charge can always do what they want, at least for a while.

deleted 3y ago

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hn_throwaway_99 3y ago

I agree with pretty much everything you've written except "Very few are talking about Adam D'Angelo's insane conflicts of interest." I've seen tons of comments all over the HN OpenAI stories about this, to the point where a lot of them feel unnecessarily conspiratorial. Like your second paragraph, I don't believe that you need to get to the level of a "D'Angelo wanted to kill OpenAI" conspiracy. Whenever there is a flat out, objective conflict of interest like there obviously is in this case, it doesn't matter what D'Angelo's true motivations are. The conflict of interest should be in and of itself a cause for D'Angelo to have resigned. I mean, Reid Hoffman (who likely would have prevented all this insanity) resigned from the OpenAI board just in March because he had a similar conflict of interest: https://www.semafor.com/article/11/19/2023/reid-hoffman-was-privately-unhappy-about-leaving-openais-board https://www.semafor.com/article/11/19/2023/reid-hoffman-was-...

firejake308 3y ago
In regards to > Very few are talking about Adam D'Angelo's insane conflicts of interest I think most of HN has been focusing on Ilya, but after he flipped, I think that leaves Adam as our prime suspect

freedomben 3y ago

This is a very interesting observation, and given Quora's decision-making history, I think acknowledging the conflicts-of-interest is wise. I suspect that this whole thing is going to be a little radioactive against the board members. It should at least, as the board basically self-destructed their organization. Even if that wasn't the intent, outcomes matter and I hope people consider this when considering putting one of these people in leadership.

martythemaniak 3y ago

Yep, this is the most likely explanation now. There's only four people: - McCauley: Doesn't seen to have a high profile or the standing required to initiate and drive this - Toner: Fun to speculate she's a government agent to bring down OpenAI, but in reality also doesn't seem to have the profile and motive to drive this. - Sutskever - he was the #1 suspect over the weekend, has the drive, profile and motivation to pull this off, but now (Monday) deeply regrets it. - D'Angelo - has the motive, drive, and profile to do this. Best guess: Quora is a ZIRP Shitco and is in trouble, Poe is gonna get steamrolled by OAI and Adam needs a bailout. Why not get rid of Sam, get bought out by OAI and become its CEO? So he convinces Ilya to act on some pre-existing concerns, then uses Ilya's credibility to get Toner and McCauley onboard. It's really the only thing that makes sense anymore.

tucnak 3y ago
What do you mean fun to speculate? I think there's no doubt that Toner is not for real and Georgetown Center for Security and Emerging Technology smells fine, too, I mean their mission is quite literally "Providing decision-makers with data-driven analysis on the security implications of emerging technologies." And it's not even much of a secret that she's reportedly wielding "influence comparable to USAF colonel"[1]. What's unknown is what role she— as a government agent— played in exploiting Sutskever and the board and to what exact end? [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38330158#38330819 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38330158#38330819
- Apocryphon 3y ago
  I thought the speculation was that McCauley was the government agent, not Toner?
  - tucnak 3y ago
    Not that I'm aware, please share if there's useful input! Have you read the thread that I linked to? This particular communication had me convinced, look up OP.

siva7 3y ago

This seems to be the most likely explanation of the events. People say how incredibly smart Adam is. That might be true. Nevertheless being smart doesn't mean he is a good fit for a board seat with such a backstabbing attitude. On the other side Helen, having a fancy title "Director of Strategy at Georgetown’s Center for Security and Emerging Technology" without much substance if you look closely and Tash, both who got their seat as a donor exchange by organisations and people they are closely connected with are clinging to their seats like super glue when almost all employees signed a letter that they don't want to be governed by them anymore. This board is a masterpiece of fragile egos who accidentally got into the governance of a major company without the ability to contribute anything of substance back. Instead they are being remembered for one of the greatest board screw-ups in business history.

sertbdfgbnfgsd 3y ago

> sweeping up Ilya in the hysteria who now seems to regret taking part Awww poor Ilya is innocent. He didn't see it coming. You shouldn't expect that from him!!

founderspend 3y ago
Maybe not innocent, but human. Many have spoken to his integrity, and given his apology (and the silence of the rest of the board), I'm inclined to believe he isn't so bad of a guy.
- vasco 3y ago
  To me it just sounds like someone who was in a failed coup. Of course you'd apologize and try to stay in, specially if you're scared of progress of AI and you want to stop it from within. I don't see how he can remain there.