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The good thing for Americans about coins is they are minted and issued without incurring debt. Notes are printed, sold to 'federal reserve' for pennies per shee

The good thing for Americans about coins is they are minted and issued without incurring debt. Notes are printed, sold to 'federal reserve' for pennies per sheet, then loaned into circulation which increases the debt which Americans then pay or will pay. Notes as money is bizarre share-cropping, and USA people would be reasonable to advocate for coins in larger denominations like 10 50 and 500 to avoid borrowing notes into existence. https://www.usmint.gov/news/inside-the-mint/how-coins-are-made-bringing-coins-into-circulation https://www.usmint.gov/news/inside-the-mint/how-coins-are-ma... "Federal Reserve Banks buy coins from the Mint at face value."

dsr_ 3y ago
If you're going to propose to rework the entirety of US fiscal policy, please actually recognize what you are proposing and treat it seriously. National debt is a primary tool to support growth.
- landemva 3y ago
  Like a credit card, national debt pulls foward spending at the price of paying interest to bankers. Breaking glass windows also increases growth (or GDP) because it forces spending to replace the broken windows. Similar GDP increase when USA builds missiles to blow up bridges (over there somewhere) and later provides funds to US contractors to rebuild those bridges. GDP number go up, along with debt and interest costs.
hgomersall 3y ago
All money is debt. Money is synonymous with debt. Everything you call money, including coins, notes and numbers in a proverbial spreadsheet is a record of a liability of some entity (i.e. debt). Coins and notes are liabilities of the central bank
- landemva 3y ago
  US coins are not debt. Coins are minted and issued as fiat then sold at face value to 'federal reserve'. Modern US notes are debt, which is why the paper has the word 'note'. Compare that with earlier paper dollars which had the word 'certificate' as in Silver Certificate - they were backed by metals.
  - addicted 3y ago
    This sounds like a difference without a distinction assuming non apocalyptic scenarios.
    - landemva 3y ago
      The difference is US dollar notes have a liability which is paid to banks 'federal reserve' and coins do not have liabilities so coins don't cost USA when issued. Coins are just issued. Notes (paper dollars and electronic) are loaned into existence and USA pays interest to federal reserve for the USA's own money.
  - hgomersall 3y ago
    The coins are bought with newly created money which creates the necessary liability side of money creation. All that happens is the fed spreadsheet asset is swapped for a physical token with the same asset value. What most people think of as money is the asset associated with an asset-liability pair. Even if it's not recorded as such, money is always a liability to its issuer, otherwise there would be no point issuing it.
    - landemva 3y ago
      > The coins are bought with newly created money which creates the necessary liability side of money creation. Not in USA. US coins are fiat without a liability. This leads to people every few years thinking they discovered that coins are just fiat and then recycling the idea of minting some $1 trillion coins and paying off the federal debt. It is technically possible, there would be no debt for the coin issuance, and would likely lead to nobody willing to purchase future USA debt issuances. https://www.investopedia.com/terms/t/trillion-dollar-coin.asp https://www.investopedia.com/terms/t/trillion-dollar-coin.as... Really bizarre are the gift shops at the US Treasury's Bureau of Engraving and Printing where they have tours to watch the printing presses. They sell to tourists uncut sheets of dollars that they print. But they first buy the sheets at face value plus the printing costs from 'federal reserve' who bought the sheets at pennies per _sheet_ that Treasury just printed. https://www.federalreserve.gov/aboutthefed/chapter-5-federal-reserve-notes.htm https://www.federalreserve.gov/aboutthefed/chapter-5-federal... "When purchasing the notes, the BEP authorizes the Reserve Banks to charge Treasury's general account for the face value of the notes plus the cost of printing." > money is always a liability to its issuer No, though prove me wrong and show us the coin liabilities on USA balance sheet somewhere.

dsr_ 3y ago

If you're going to propose to rework the entirety of US fiscal policy, please actually recognize what you are proposing and treat it seriously. National debt is a primary tool to support growth.

landemva 3y ago
Like a credit card, national debt pulls foward spending at the price of paying interest to bankers. Breaking glass windows also increases growth (or GDP) because it forces spending to replace the broken windows. Similar GDP increase when USA builds missiles to blow up bridges (over there somewhere) and later provides funds to US contractors to rebuild those bridges. GDP number go up, along with debt and interest costs.

hgomersall 3y ago

All money is debt. Money is synonymous with debt. Everything you call money, including coins, notes and numbers in a proverbial spreadsheet is a record of a liability of some entity (i.e. debt). Coins and notes are liabilities of the central bank

landemva 3y ago
US coins are not debt. Coins are minted and issued as fiat then sold at face value to 'federal reserve'. Modern US notes are debt, which is why the paper has the word 'note'. Compare that with earlier paper dollars which had the word 'certificate' as in Silver Certificate - they were backed by metals.
- addicted 3y ago
  This sounds like a difference without a distinction assuming non apocalyptic scenarios.
  - landemva 3y ago
    The difference is US dollar notes have a liability which is paid to banks 'federal reserve' and coins do not have liabilities so coins don't cost USA when issued. Coins are just issued. Notes (paper dollars and electronic) are loaned into existence and USA pays interest to federal reserve for the USA's own money.
- hgomersall 3y ago
  The coins are bought with newly created money which creates the necessary liability side of money creation. All that happens is the fed spreadsheet asset is swapped for a physical token with the same asset value. What most people think of as money is the asset associated with an asset-liability pair. Even if it's not recorded as such, money is always a liability to its issuer, otherwise there would be no point issuing it.
  - landemva 3y ago
    > The coins are bought with newly created money which creates the necessary liability side of money creation. Not in USA. US coins are fiat without a liability. This leads to people every few years thinking they discovered that coins are just fiat and then recycling the idea of minting some $1 trillion coins and paying off the federal debt. It is technically possible, there would be no debt for the coin issuance, and would likely lead to nobody willing to purchase future USA debt issuances. https://www.investopedia.com/terms/t/trillion-dollar-coin.asp https://www.investopedia.com/terms/t/trillion-dollar-coin.as... Really bizarre are the gift shops at the US Treasury's Bureau of Engraving and Printing where they have tours to watch the printing presses. They sell to tourists uncut sheets of dollars that they print. But they first buy the sheets at face value plus the printing costs from 'federal reserve' who bought the sheets at pennies per _sheet_ that Treasury just printed. https://www.federalreserve.gov/aboutthefed/chapter-5-federal-reserve-notes.htm https://www.federalreserve.gov/aboutthefed/chapter-5-federal... "When purchasing the notes, the BEP authorizes the Reserve Banks to charge Treasury's general account for the face value of the notes plus the cost of printing." > money is always a liability to its issuer No, though prove me wrong and show us the coin liabilities on USA balance sheet somewhere.