15 ms·

What currency would the government pay benefits/public sector employees' wages in?

liotier 3y ago
At that point in lunacy, I wouldn't discount Milei having a plan to replace all public sector employees with private firms.
- wvlia5 3y ago
  This is true. Long-term plan is to abolish the state itself, as Milei is a declared anarchocapitalist
  - hutzlibu 3y ago
    He is also a populist, who would not even allow a abortion, to a 10 year old rape victim. (that was a literal question and answer in an interview with him). Oh and he would allow the selling of children. So I would question the consistency of his freedom ideology. If you use the state to enfore strict law on abortion, meaning deciding over other peoples bodies, how will you do so without a state? Or why do so, when you do not want a state at all?
    - ryandrake 3y ago
      The guy's Wikipedia page[1] is a wild ride. Let's see: He's a cosplayer. He's telepathic. He speaks to dogs, both dead and alive ones. He speaks to dead people, too, including Ayn Rand. He has seen the resurrection of Christ three times, but he can't talk about it. He met a lion, as a gladiator in the Roman Colosseum 2,000 years ago. Good luck, Argentines. 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Javier_Milei https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Javier_Milei
      - conradfr 3y ago
        Imagine being the other candidates who lost to this man.
        hutzlibu 3y ago
        Their corruption is basically the reason, this guy won at all. (According to argentinians I know)
        snapetom 3y ago
        Argentina had strict lockdowns and in the height of a wave, a picture leaked of the President and his huge family all gathered together for a fancy dinner. My coworkers were furious. Oh yeah, and Cristina and all her shenanigans.
        neuromanser 3y ago
        Like losing to Trump.
      - hnbad 3y ago
        > He's a cosplayer. Oh, you mean in addition to being an ancap? Anarcho-capitalism is a nonsense label to allow libertarians to cosplay as anarchists without having to give up on their positions of power. It seemingly only exists so rich people can be against paying taxes or having to follow laws and regulations while getting to pretend they're revolutionaries "fighting the system".
    - koolba 3y ago
      > Oh and he would allow the selling of children. That’s an incredibly bold claim. When did he say that and what was the context? > If you use the state to enfore strict law on abortion, meaning deciding over other peoples bodies, how will you do so without a state? Or why do so, when you do not want a state at all? If you consider the top job of government is to protect life, it flows pretty naturally. Just because you personally don’t agree with it does not mean it’s irrational.
      - hutzlibu 3y ago
        "That’s an incredibly bold claim. When did he say that and what was the context?" See Wikipedia: "In a June 2022 interview, when asked about his stance on the sale of children, Milei initially said that "it depends" But being a populist, apparently he took that back after some public outcry. And when you want to abolish the whole state, then it is really not rational to use the state to enforce some radical ideology with the help of the state in my opinion. But I won't discuss forcing a 10 year old rape victim to carry a baby in the name of life here any further.
        zpeti 3y ago
        I’m not sure Wikipedia is a good source for what a populist right wing politician said. Wikipedia can be insanely inaccurate on political topics. I have no idea what milei said, I’m just stating how bad I find Wikipedia sometimes on political topics
        hutzlibu 3y ago
        But they do include sources, so you can check out the original: https://www.minutoar.com.ar/actualidad/2022/6/29/javier-milei-vuelve-ser-centro-de-polemicas-por-sus-declaraciones-sobre-la-venta-de-ninos-52333.html https://www.minutoar.com.ar/actualidad/2022/6/29/javier-mile...
        koolba 3y ago
        And according to this link that one that you're referencing is fake news: https://www.lanacion.com.ar/lnmas/javier-milei-no-estoy-de-acuerdo-con-la-venta-de-ninos-nid28072022/ https://www.lanacion.com.ar/lnmas/javier-milei-no-estoy-de-a...
    - giraffe_lady 3y ago
      Selling children is completely consistent with honest anarchocapitalism. Absolutely fucked ideology.
      - hutzlibu 3y ago
        Depends. It is not a single coherent ideology. Most anarchocapitalists regard property and property of ones own body to be sacred. That would disallow selling children as you cannot own them in the first place. They own themself.
        fluoridation 3y ago
        That would mean you can't sell children as slaves or meat, but not that you can't sell custody of children.
        hutzlibu 3y ago
        Good observation, but depending on the type of anarchocapitalists we are talking about, there might not be such a thing as custody.
      - marcusverus 3y ago
        When is the last time you saw a "think of the kids" argument offered in good faith? I honestly can't remember. Anarcho-capitalists' ideal is a "consent society", free from coercion (state or otherwise). Children cannot meaningfully consent and thus selling them is not "consistent" with anarcho-capitalism.
        giraffe_lady 3y ago
        > When is the last time you saw a "think of the kids" argument offered in good faith? Right there, when I made one? But no, what you're claiming doesn't align with other proponents of the ideology I've seen. They are only opposed to state coercion, but market pressures can certainly be coercive and they don't resist that. And by what mechanism would anarcho-capitalists prevent the selling of children or child labor? They don't hold that the state has such a power. Children also don't consent to be even their parents' wards, so the consent of children is not a sufficient framework to construct a basis of opposition. Markets don't have the will to decline child exploitation and anarcho-capitalism doesn't invest an entity with the power to prevent it. Individuals may honestly say they don't want it but the system offers nothing to oppose the incentives that will cause it.
    - The_Colonel 3y ago
      Anarcho-capitalism provides suitable conditions for strongmen, religious leaders, little feudal lords to impose their views on the less powerful, so I don't necessarily view a contradiction.
      - buzzert 3y ago
        > strongmen, religious leaders, little feudal lords to impose their views on the less powerful Can you explain how this is different than a government?
        JAlexoid 3y ago
        It's not. Ancapistan is basically a small scale absolute monarchy.
        The_Colonel 3y ago
        The lords are smaller scale, have more of an absolute power, not bound by things like laws and such. To me, it seems like a repeat of history, we had an anarcho-capitalist society already, but people started to self-organize into larger groups with rules, tradition, processes ⇾ states.
        johngladtj 3y ago
        Smaller in scale yet more absolute power? Do you think a large and powerful government has less power than a local feudal lord??
        The_Colonel 3y ago
        Yes, large governments have less power over an individual. The president / prime minister can't decide that I deserve to be executed for a traffic offense. A small feudal lord has fewer subjects, but also fewer (no) limits. Nothing preventing him from killing you without repercussions on a whim.
        3y ago
s08148692 3y ago
From the few interviews I've watched, he seems like a real life manifestation of an Ayn Rand hero character. I doubt he has any public sector or welfare in his plans
- ursuscamp 3y ago
  Ayn Rand heroes are all sophisticated, educated artists and artisans. This man is more like a psychotic Ron Paul (I say this with some affection). He's an anarchist and very Austrian in his economics affiliation. Definitely not an affiliation that Objectivists favored at all.
  - hnbad 3y ago
    He's not an anarchist. The creator of the mislabel "anarchocapitalism" was himself an Ayn Rand fan until she basically told him he wasn't an anarchist and he decided to take that personally. Anarchism is the abolition of hierarchical systems of power. "Anarchocapitalism" only refers to the abolition of the state while maintaining all other hierarchical systems and capitalism in particular. You can not enforce property claims without violence. "Anarchocapitalists" either handwave this with private armies (which is just feudalism with extra steps) or insist on everyone following the Non-Aggression Principle, which is nonsense without a system of enforcement. The more honest types usually fall back to minarchy, i.e. having a small state that basically only consists of a legal system and police force to enforce property claims and resolve disputes. Heck, the person who came up with the name opposed not only taxes but also the civil rights movement and universal suffrage. The only coherent ideological thread in his life was not wanting to pay taxes, not wanting to have to follow regulations and being convinced he was very smart.
    - ursuscamp 3y ago
      I'm well aware of the argument that left-wing anarchists make that anarcho-capitalism isn't real anarchism. As per usual, only left-wing anarchists care about this semantic argument. Anarcho-capitalists keep using that term, and 99.9% of the rest of world doesn't know, and wouldn't care even if you explained your point of view to them. Also, is Murray Rothbard like Voldemort to you? You seem to refuse to even say his name.

At that point in lunacy, I wouldn't discount Milei having a plan to replace all public sector employees with private firms.

wvlia5 3y ago
This is true. Long-term plan is to abolish the state itself, as Milei is a declared anarchocapitalist
- hutzlibu 3y ago
  He is also a populist, who would not even allow a abortion, to a 10 year old rape victim. (that was a literal question and answer in an interview with him). Oh and he would allow the selling of children. So I would question the consistency of his freedom ideology. If you use the state to enfore strict law on abortion, meaning deciding over other peoples bodies, how will you do so without a state? Or why do so, when you do not want a state at all?
  - ryandrake 3y ago
    The guy's Wikipedia page[1] is a wild ride. Let's see: He's a cosplayer. He's telepathic. He speaks to dogs, both dead and alive ones. He speaks to dead people, too, including Ayn Rand. He has seen the resurrection of Christ three times, but he can't talk about it. He met a lion, as a gladiator in the Roman Colosseum 2,000 years ago. Good luck, Argentines. 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Javier_Milei https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Javier_Milei
    - conradfr 3y ago
      Imagine being the other candidates who lost to this man.
      - hutzlibu 3y ago
        Their corruption is basically the reason, this guy won at all. (According to argentinians I know)
        snapetom 3y ago
        Argentina had strict lockdowns and in the height of a wave, a picture leaked of the President and his huge family all gathered together for a fancy dinner. My coworkers were furious. Oh yeah, and Cristina and all her shenanigans.
      - neuromanser 3y ago
        Like losing to Trump.
    - hnbad 3y ago
      > He's a cosplayer. Oh, you mean in addition to being an ancap? Anarcho-capitalism is a nonsense label to allow libertarians to cosplay as anarchists without having to give up on their positions of power. It seemingly only exists so rich people can be against paying taxes or having to follow laws and regulations while getting to pretend they're revolutionaries "fighting the system".
  - koolba 3y ago
    > Oh and he would allow the selling of children. That’s an incredibly bold claim. When did he say that and what was the context? > If you use the state to enfore strict law on abortion, meaning deciding over other peoples bodies, how will you do so without a state? Or why do so, when you do not want a state at all? If you consider the top job of government is to protect life, it flows pretty naturally. Just because you personally don’t agree with it does not mean it’s irrational.
    - hutzlibu 3y ago
      "That’s an incredibly bold claim. When did he say that and what was the context?" See Wikipedia: "In a June 2022 interview, when asked about his stance on the sale of children, Milei initially said that "it depends" But being a populist, apparently he took that back after some public outcry. And when you want to abolish the whole state, then it is really not rational to use the state to enforce some radical ideology with the help of the state in my opinion. But I won't discuss forcing a 10 year old rape victim to carry a baby in the name of life here any further.
      - zpeti 3y ago
        I’m not sure Wikipedia is a good source for what a populist right wing politician said. Wikipedia can be insanely inaccurate on political topics. I have no idea what milei said, I’m just stating how bad I find Wikipedia sometimes on political topics
        hutzlibu 3y ago
        But they do include sources, so you can check out the original: https://www.minutoar.com.ar/actualidad/2022/6/29/javier-milei-vuelve-ser-centro-de-polemicas-por-sus-declaraciones-sobre-la-venta-de-ninos-52333.html https://www.minutoar.com.ar/actualidad/2022/6/29/javier-mile...
        koolba 3y ago
        And according to this link that one that you're referencing is fake news: https://www.lanacion.com.ar/lnmas/javier-milei-no-estoy-de-acuerdo-con-la-venta-de-ninos-nid28072022/ https://www.lanacion.com.ar/lnmas/javier-milei-no-estoy-de-a...
  - giraffe_lady 3y ago
    Selling children is completely consistent with honest anarchocapitalism. Absolutely fucked ideology.
    - hutzlibu 3y ago
      Depends. It is not a single coherent ideology. Most anarchocapitalists regard property and property of ones own body to be sacred. That would disallow selling children as you cannot own them in the first place. They own themself.
      - fluoridation 3y ago
        That would mean you can't sell children as slaves or meat, but not that you can't sell custody of children.
        hutzlibu 3y ago
        Good observation, but depending on the type of anarchocapitalists we are talking about, there might not be such a thing as custody.
    - marcusverus 3y ago
      When is the last time you saw a "think of the kids" argument offered in good faith? I honestly can't remember. Anarcho-capitalists' ideal is a "consent society", free from coercion (state or otherwise). Children cannot meaningfully consent and thus selling them is not "consistent" with anarcho-capitalism.
      - giraffe_lady 3y ago
        > When is the last time you saw a "think of the kids" argument offered in good faith? Right there, when I made one? But no, what you're claiming doesn't align with other proponents of the ideology I've seen. They are only opposed to state coercion, but market pressures can certainly be coercive and they don't resist that. And by what mechanism would anarcho-capitalists prevent the selling of children or child labor? They don't hold that the state has such a power. Children also don't consent to be even their parents' wards, so the consent of children is not a sufficient framework to construct a basis of opposition. Markets don't have the will to decline child exploitation and anarcho-capitalism doesn't invest an entity with the power to prevent it. Individuals may honestly say they don't want it but the system offers nothing to oppose the incentives that will cause it.
  - The_Colonel 3y ago
    Anarcho-capitalism provides suitable conditions for strongmen, religious leaders, little feudal lords to impose their views on the less powerful, so I don't necessarily view a contradiction.
    - buzzert 3y ago
      > strongmen, religious leaders, little feudal lords to impose their views on the less powerful Can you explain how this is different than a government?
      - JAlexoid 3y ago
        It's not. Ancapistan is basically a small scale absolute monarchy.
      - The_Colonel 3y ago
        The lords are smaller scale, have more of an absolute power, not bound by things like laws and such. To me, it seems like a repeat of history, we had an anarcho-capitalist society already, but people started to self-organize into larger groups with rules, tradition, processes ⇾ states.
        johngladtj 3y ago
        Smaller in scale yet more absolute power? Do you think a large and powerful government has less power than a local feudal lord??
        The_Colonel 3y ago
        Yes, large governments have less power over an individual. The president / prime minister can't decide that I deserve to be executed for a traffic offense. A small feudal lord has fewer subjects, but also fewer (no) limits. Nothing preventing him from killing you without repercussions on a whim.
        3y ago

s08148692 3y ago

From the few interviews I've watched, he seems like a real life manifestation of an Ayn Rand hero character. I doubt he has any public sector or welfare in his plans

ursuscamp 3y ago
Ayn Rand heroes are all sophisticated, educated artists and artisans. This man is more like a psychotic Ron Paul (I say this with some affection). He's an anarchist and very Austrian in his economics affiliation. Definitely not an affiliation that Objectivists favored at all.
- hnbad 3y ago
  He's not an anarchist. The creator of the mislabel "anarchocapitalism" was himself an Ayn Rand fan until she basically told him he wasn't an anarchist and he decided to take that personally. Anarchism is the abolition of hierarchical systems of power. "Anarchocapitalism" only refers to the abolition of the state while maintaining all other hierarchical systems and capitalism in particular. You can not enforce property claims without violence. "Anarchocapitalists" either handwave this with private armies (which is just feudalism with extra steps) or insist on everyone following the Non-Aggression Principle, which is nonsense without a system of enforcement. The more honest types usually fall back to minarchy, i.e. having a small state that basically only consists of a legal system and police force to enforce property claims and resolve disputes. Heck, the person who came up with the name opposed not only taxes but also the civil rights movement and universal suffrage. The only coherent ideological thread in his life was not wanting to pay taxes, not wanting to have to follow regulations and being convinced he was very smart.
  - ursuscamp 3y ago
    I'm well aware of the argument that left-wing anarchists make that anarcho-capitalism isn't real anarchism. As per usual, only left-wing anarchists care about this semantic argument. Anarcho-capitalists keep using that term, and 99.9% of the rest of world doesn't know, and wouldn't care even if you explained your point of view to them. Also, is Murray Rothbard like Voldemort to you? You seem to refuse to even say his name.