4 ms·

Normal people can't take being at the center of a large controversy, the amount of negativity and hate you have to face is massive. That is enough to make almos

selcuka 3y ago
Normal people don't burn a multi billion dollar company to the ground with a spontaneous decision either. They plan for the backlash.
- Jensson 3y ago
  > They plan for the backlash You can't plan for something you have never experienced. Being hated by a large group of people is a very different feeling from getting hated by an individual, you don't know if you can handle it until it happens to you.
  - anonylizard 3y ago
    You can plan for something you've never experienced. You read, or learn from other people's experiences. Normal people know not to burn a $80 billion company to the ground in a weekend. Ilya was doing something unprecedented in corporate history, and astounding he wasn't prepared to face the world's fury over it.
    - Jensson 3y ago
      > You can plan for something you've never experienced. You read, or learn from other people's experiences. Text doesn't convey emotions, and our empathy doesn't work well for emotions we have never experienced. You can see a guy that got kicked in the balls got hurt, but that doesn't mean you are prepared to endure the pain of getting kicked in your balls or that you even understand how painful it is. Also watching politicians it looks like you can just brush it off, because that is what they do. But that requires a lot of experience, not anyone can do it, it is like watching a boxing match and think you can easily stand after a hard punch in your stomach.
      - selcuka 3y ago
        > You can see a guy that got kicked in the balls got hurt, but that doesn't mean you are prepared to endure the pain of getting kicked in your balls or that you even understand how painful it is. Sure, but you do your best not to be kicked in the balls.
        SilasX 3y ago
        Yep. Or, if you're running an immense, well-funded organization that is gauging the consequences of a plan that involves being kicked in the balls, you take a tiny sliver of those funds and get some advisors to appraise you of what to expect when being kicked in the balls, not just wing it/"fake it till you make it". (As it turns out, faking not being in severe pain is tricky.)
      - gemstones 3y ago
        Ilya torched peoples' retirements by signaling that it would be very hard to cash out in OpenAI as it is now. You don't have to be emotional to understand the consequence of that action, just logical. You have to think beyond your own narrow perspective for a minute.
        rrr_oh_man 3y ago
        Where did he do that? Genuine question.
        gemstones 3y ago
        The board vote did it! They had a tender offer in the works that would have made employees millionaires. The board clearly signaled that they viewed the money-making aspects of the company as something to dial back, which in turn either severely lessens the value of that tender offer or prevents it from happening. I mean, he didn't have a button on his desk that said, "torch the shares", but he ousted the CEO as a way to cut back on the things that might have meant profit. Did he think that everyone was going to continue to want to give them money after they signal a move away from profit motives? Doesn't take a rocket scientist to think that one through. I think he was just preoccupied with AI safety, and didn't give a thought to the knock on effects for investors of any stripe. He's clearly smart enough to, he just didn't care enough to factor it into his plans.
    - endtime 3y ago
      > You read, or learn from other people's experiences...Ilya was doing something unprecedented in corporate history So whose experiences was he supposed to read about?
      - CamperBob2 3y ago
        Yevgeny Prigozhin's?
  - b112 3y ago
    He hasn't ever posted to reddit?
- ChainOfFools 3y ago
  Is it possible that someone in Ilya's position can be unaware of just how staggeringly enormous a phenomenon he is sitting on top of ( and thus have no idea how to evaluate the scale of the backlash that would result?) I would say the answer is, demonstrably yes: https://techcrunch.com/2010/09/29/google-excite/ https://techcrunch.com/2010/09/29/google-excite/
  - b112 3y ago
    This is fair, but understand, Google bought would probably not be Google we have. To think it would grow just as fast, or in the ways it did? Acquires are seldom left alone to do magic.
- asdfasdfsadf22 3y ago
  Have you ever had a bad day? The consequences for people in power is about 1 million times bigger and more public. Sutskever didn't get on the board by cunning politicking and schmoozing like most businesspeople with that sort of position. He's an outstanding engineer without upper management skills. Every meet one of those?
  - geodel 3y ago
    Outstandingly clueless seems more appropriate. I haven't people any reasonably intelligent person so unaware of real world that they can berate a colleague so publicly and officially and think "Hey! I am sorry man" will do the trick.
    - razodactyl 3y ago
      Clueless is a word to use... I think Ilya got screwed over by corporate swindling and made a mistake that's all. As a smart idiot I can resonate with the guy - you don't make that mistake twice. I like to believe the push for prosperity is still a mutual goal and the board drama is an unfortunate setback to overcome.
- throw555chip 3y ago
  There were plenty of hyped crypto coin companies supposedly worth billions too and we found out otherwise.
- eli_gottlieb 3y ago
  Normal people don't have multi-billion dollar companies to burn because they back off in the face of haters long before they get to that stage.
- mcphage 3y ago
  > Normal people don't burn a multi billion dollar company to the ground with a spontaneous decision either. Has OpenAI been burnt to the ground?
  - Turing_Machine 3y ago
    Three CEOs in as many days, founders departing, and more than 600 employees out of 770 signing an open letter threatening to quit seems pretty burny. And it's just Monday afternoon.
    - mcphage 3y ago
      600 employees quitting would be burny. 600 employees signing a letter saying they’re going to quit isn’t quite there. 3 CEOs in 3 days, isn’t burny, either. There’s the guy they fired, the person they had take on the role so they have someone in the role, and then someone they hired to be CEO. I guess they could have gotten that down to 2 by jumping immediately to their intended replacement, but not having them ready to start immediately doesn’t seem odd. And yeah, it’s just Monday afternoon. If in the next few days, a sizable chunk of those who threatened to quit do so, then that would be burny. But we ain’t there yet.
anoy8888 3y ago
So is Adam D'Angelo the true villain who is still insisting on the bad decision? I am confused, to be honest .
- TheOtherHobbes 3y ago
  Everyone is confused. It's impressively operatic. I don't think I've ever seen anything like it.
- x0x0 3y ago
  The inability to clearly and publicly -- or even if not publicly, to the OpenAI employees! -- explain a rationale for this is simply astounding.
tarsinge 3y ago
I think they underestimated the hate of an internet crowd post crypto and meme stocks, now completely blindsided by the investment angle especially in the current AI hype. Like why do people now care so much about Microsoft seriously? Or Altman? I can see why Ilya only focused on the real mission could miss how the crowd could perceive a threat to their future investment opportunities, or worse threatening the whole AI hype.
- appplication 3y ago
  I think you’re right about all of this, but this was doomed from the start. Everybody wants to invest in OpenAI because they see the rocket and want to ride, but the company is fundamentally structured to disallow typical frothy investment mentality.
- theamk 3y ago
  I think the interest is because ChatGPT is so famous, even in non-tech circles. "Terraform raised prices, losing customers"? whatever, I never heard about it. "ChatGPT's creators have internal disagreement, losing talent"? OH NO what if ChatGPT dies, who is going to answer my questions?? panic panic hate hate...
AniseAbyss 3y ago
[dead]
stcredzero 3y ago
Normal people can't take being at the center of a large controversy, the amount of negativity and hate you have to face is massive. That is enough to make almost anyone backtrack just to make it stop. This is the cheapest and most cost-effective way to run things as an authoritarian -- at least in the short term. If one is not "made of sterner stuff" -- to the point where one is willing to endure scorn for the sake of the truth: - Then what are you doing in a startup, if working in one - One doesn't have enough integrity to be my friend

selcuka 3y ago

Normal people don't burn a multi billion dollar company to the ground with a spontaneous decision either. They plan for the backlash.

Jensson 3y ago
> They plan for the backlash You can't plan for something you have never experienced. Being hated by a large group of people is a very different feeling from getting hated by an individual, you don't know if you can handle it until it happens to you.
- anonylizard 3y ago
  You can plan for something you've never experienced. You read, or learn from other people's experiences. Normal people know not to burn a $80 billion company to the ground in a weekend. Ilya was doing something unprecedented in corporate history, and astounding he wasn't prepared to face the world's fury over it.
  - Jensson 3y ago
    > You can plan for something you've never experienced. You read, or learn from other people's experiences. Text doesn't convey emotions, and our empathy doesn't work well for emotions we have never experienced. You can see a guy that got kicked in the balls got hurt, but that doesn't mean you are prepared to endure the pain of getting kicked in your balls or that you even understand how painful it is. Also watching politicians it looks like you can just brush it off, because that is what they do. But that requires a lot of experience, not anyone can do it, it is like watching a boxing match and think you can easily stand after a hard punch in your stomach.
    - selcuka 3y ago
      > You can see a guy that got kicked in the balls got hurt, but that doesn't mean you are prepared to endure the pain of getting kicked in your balls or that you even understand how painful it is. Sure, but you do your best not to be kicked in the balls.
      - SilasX 3y ago
        Yep. Or, if you're running an immense, well-funded organization that is gauging the consequences of a plan that involves being kicked in the balls, you take a tiny sliver of those funds and get some advisors to appraise you of what to expect when being kicked in the balls, not just wing it/"fake it till you make it". (As it turns out, faking not being in severe pain is tricky.)
    - gemstones 3y ago
      Ilya torched peoples' retirements by signaling that it would be very hard to cash out in OpenAI as it is now. You don't have to be emotional to understand the consequence of that action, just logical. You have to think beyond your own narrow perspective for a minute.
      - rrr_oh_man 3y ago
        Where did he do that? Genuine question.
        gemstones 3y ago
        The board vote did it! They had a tender offer in the works that would have made employees millionaires. The board clearly signaled that they viewed the money-making aspects of the company as something to dial back, which in turn either severely lessens the value of that tender offer or prevents it from happening. I mean, he didn't have a button on his desk that said, "torch the shares", but he ousted the CEO as a way to cut back on the things that might have meant profit. Did he think that everyone was going to continue to want to give them money after they signal a move away from profit motives? Doesn't take a rocket scientist to think that one through. I think he was just preoccupied with AI safety, and didn't give a thought to the knock on effects for investors of any stripe. He's clearly smart enough to, he just didn't care enough to factor it into his plans.
  - endtime 3y ago
    > You read, or learn from other people's experiences...Ilya was doing something unprecedented in corporate history So whose experiences was he supposed to read about?
    - CamperBob2 3y ago
      Yevgeny Prigozhin's?
- b112 3y ago
  He hasn't ever posted to reddit?
ChainOfFools 3y ago
Is it possible that someone in Ilya's position can be unaware of just how staggeringly enormous a phenomenon he is sitting on top of ( and thus have no idea how to evaluate the scale of the backlash that would result?) I would say the answer is, demonstrably yes: https://techcrunch.com/2010/09/29/google-excite/ https://techcrunch.com/2010/09/29/google-excite/
- b112 3y ago
  This is fair, but understand, Google bought would probably not be Google we have. To think it would grow just as fast, or in the ways it did? Acquires are seldom left alone to do magic.
asdfasdfsadf22 3y ago
Have you ever had a bad day? The consequences for people in power is about 1 million times bigger and more public. Sutskever didn't get on the board by cunning politicking and schmoozing like most businesspeople with that sort of position. He's an outstanding engineer without upper management skills. Every meet one of those?
- geodel 3y ago
  Outstandingly clueless seems more appropriate. I haven't people any reasonably intelligent person so unaware of real world that they can berate a colleague so publicly and officially and think "Hey! I am sorry man" will do the trick.
  - razodactyl 3y ago
    Clueless is a word to use... I think Ilya got screwed over by corporate swindling and made a mistake that's all. As a smart idiot I can resonate with the guy - you don't make that mistake twice. I like to believe the push for prosperity is still a mutual goal and the board drama is an unfortunate setback to overcome.
throw555chip 3y ago
There were plenty of hyped crypto coin companies supposedly worth billions too and we found out otherwise.
eli_gottlieb 3y ago
Normal people don't have multi-billion dollar companies to burn because they back off in the face of haters long before they get to that stage.
mcphage 3y ago
> Normal people don't burn a multi billion dollar company to the ground with a spontaneous decision either. Has OpenAI been burnt to the ground?
- Turing_Machine 3y ago
  Three CEOs in as many days, founders departing, and more than 600 employees out of 770 signing an open letter threatening to quit seems pretty burny. And it's just Monday afternoon.
  - mcphage 3y ago
    600 employees quitting would be burny. 600 employees signing a letter saying they’re going to quit isn’t quite there. 3 CEOs in 3 days, isn’t burny, either. There’s the guy they fired, the person they had take on the role so they have someone in the role, and then someone they hired to be CEO. I guess they could have gotten that down to 2 by jumping immediately to their intended replacement, but not having them ready to start immediately doesn’t seem odd. And yeah, it’s just Monday afternoon. If in the next few days, a sizable chunk of those who threatened to quit do so, then that would be burny. But we ain’t there yet.

anoy8888 3y ago

So is Adam D'Angelo the true villain who is still insisting on the bad decision? I am confused, to be honest .

TheOtherHobbes 3y ago
Everyone is confused. It's impressively operatic. I don't think I've ever seen anything like it.
x0x0 3y ago
The inability to clearly and publicly -- or even if not publicly, to the OpenAI employees! -- explain a rationale for this is simply astounding.

tarsinge 3y ago

I think they underestimated the hate of an internet crowd post crypto and meme stocks, now completely blindsided by the investment angle especially in the current AI hype. Like why do people now care so much about Microsoft seriously? Or Altman? I can see why Ilya only focused on the real mission could miss how the crowd could perceive a threat to their future investment opportunities, or worse threatening the whole AI hype.

appplication 3y ago
I think you’re right about all of this, but this was doomed from the start. Everybody wants to invest in OpenAI because they see the rocket and want to ride, but the company is fundamentally structured to disallow typical frothy investment mentality.
theamk 3y ago
I think the interest is because ChatGPT is so famous, even in non-tech circles. "Terraform raised prices, losing customers"? whatever, I never heard about it. "ChatGPT's creators have internal disagreement, losing talent"? OH NO what if ChatGPT dies, who is going to answer my questions?? panic panic hate hate...

AniseAbyss 3y ago

[dead]

stcredzero 3y ago

Normal people can't take being at the center of a large controversy, the amount of negativity and hate you have to face is massive. That is enough to make almost anyone backtrack just to make it stop. This is the cheapest and most cost-effective way to run things as an authoritarian -- at least in the short term. If one is not "made of sterner stuff" -- to the point where one is willing to endure scorn for the sake of the truth: - Then what are you doing in a startup, if working in one - One doesn't have enough integrity to be my friend