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> The anchor interviewed Ethiopian women who said they thought the shots were vaccinations. I'm gonna have to call bullshit here. And honestly, it's kind of ra

by zoky 3y ago

> The anchor interviewed Ethiopian women who said they thought the shots were vaccinations. I'm gonna have to call bullshit here. And honestly, it's kind of racist and sexist bullshit. 1) How does anybody believe that the “vaccinations” they are being given have to be re-administered every three months? 2) Why would these “vaccinations” only apply to women? Do you think the women getting these injections are too stupid to notice that, for whatever reason, their husbands and sons aren't required to get them? 3) Depo-Provera is known to reduce or eliminate womens' periods, as are most forms of birth control when taken constantly throughout the menstrual cycle. Do you really think these women are so out of touch with their own bodies that they wouldn't realize that, hey, something just might be wrong, when they haven't gotten their periods in months or years? Unfortunately, to believe the story as stated above, you have to accept at least one, and possibly all, of these statements at face value. And I fail to see how anybody could accept any of these statements at face value, unless you believe that Ethiopian (read, “Black”) women are generally less intelligent than the rest of humanity, either due to their gender or race. I'm not trying to be critical of you personally, because I know it's hard to see things from the perspective of another sociological position. But before ascribing viewpoints to a race or gender other than your own, you really should look at things from their point of view, while assuming that they are at least as intelligent as you are while doing so.

kevinventullo 3y ago
1. COVID boosters were given every six months. 2. There are plenty of preventative treatments that differ between men and women. It is clear from the reporting that there was a concerted government policy to encourage Ethiopian women to have fewer or no children. The women themselves said they didn’t understand what the shots did. But yeah, the reporters calling attention to this horrific policy are the racist ones, got it.
- zoky 3y ago
  > 1. COVID boosters were given every six months. That’s still way less frequently than every three months. And honestly, that was a really big deal at the time, and there was nothing comparable before that. A vaccine being required every three months, indefinitely, is implausible. And it’s a stupid plan, too; how would they ensure all of these women were compliant with getting the “vaccine” every three months? Vaccine uptake rates are low enough as it is. The only way to ensure women would reliably continue to get these injections is if they are something they actively want—i.e., birth control. > 2. There are plenty of preventative treatments that differ between men and women. You can’t seriously expect tens of thousands of women to be injected with birth control and not have any idea of what’s going on. What about when their periods stop and they’re somehow not pregnant? Oh, gee, that’s weird. Guess my daughter and I better keep going back to get these “vaccinations” every three months that my husband and son don’t need for whatever reason. > It is clear from the reporting that there was a concerted government policy to encourage Ethiopian women to have fewer or no children. Apparently you didn’t read the article, because it’s actually not clear at all that there was any such policy. It literally says: > However, there is no clear evidence indicating that the Israeli government or humanitarian organizations involved purposefully coerced women into receiving injections in an effort to reduce birth rates. > The women themselves said they didn’t understand what the shots did. No, they didn’t. Nobody said they didn’t understand that these shots were, in fact, birth control. Some women may not have understood what the side-effects were, or that there were other options for birth control. > But yeah, the reporters calling attention to this horrific policy are the racist ones, got it. I don’t see how anyone can in good faith call this a policy, much less a “horrific” one. And, yes, to believe that such a policy could have been successful in its supposed goals requires one to believe that tens of thousands of immigrant women were foolish enough to unquestioningly take these “vaccines” every three months despite the obvious changes to their bodies and fertility. In other words, one would have to hold blatantly racist and sexist beliefs for the story to be plausible on its face.
  - kevinventullo 3y ago
    Hm, there seems to be contradictory reporting. The TOI article states about the television report: “Furthermore, many of the women claimed they were never told that the shots were to prevent pregnancy. Rather, they were under the impression that the shots were vaccinations.” But the detailed investigation from Isha L’Isha (http://isha.org.il/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/%D7%93%D7%A4%D7%95-%D7%90%D7%A0%D7%92%D7%9C%D7%99%D7%AA.pdf http://isha.org.il/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/%D7%93%D7%A4%D...), which also conducted interviews with the women, made no such claim, focusing instead on the lack of understanding of side effects and alternatives.
    - zoky 3y ago
      Is it possible that doctors and other officials stressed the importance of family planning and having fewer children to Ethiopian refugees? Almost certainly. Was that appropriate for them to do? That may be debatable, but it hardly rises to any sort of ethics issue. Were refugees told they had to get vaccinations as a condition for their receiving asylum? Very probably; vaccination is frequently a requirement for asylum seekers in many countries. Were Depo-Provera injections also offered? Yes, we know they were. Were they, like vaccinations, mandatory? There is no evidence that that is the case, and in fact we have several accounts of women electing to stop the injections after getting them for months or years. Is it possible that some female refugees, many of whom could not read, write or speak Hebrew (or even English) very well at all, were under the mistaken impression that the Depo-Provera injections they were initially offered were part of the vaccine series they were required to take? In theory, sure, or perhaps these women were misremembering the details of what happened while they were in the middle of an incredibly stressful and exhausting situation, and later forgot the distinction between what was required and what was optional. But even in these cases, there is no evidence that the women were forced to continue with the Depo-Provera injections against their will once they realized what they were taking, or even that any of them were ultimately unaware that they were taking birth control. Does any of this amount to a policy of forced sterilization (or even forced contraception) of immigrants by the Israeli government? That’s a claim that rises beyond irresponsibility to outright dishonesty. But here we are seeing these lies being spread on HN…

by zoky 3y ago

kevinventullo 3y ago

1. COVID boosters were given every six months. 2. There are plenty of preventative treatments that differ between men and women. It is clear from the reporting that there was a concerted government policy to encourage Ethiopian women to have fewer or no children. The women themselves said they didn’t understand what the shots did. But yeah, the reporters calling attention to this horrific policy are the racist ones, got it.

zoky 3y ago
> 1. COVID boosters were given every six months. That’s still way less frequently than every three months. And honestly, that was a really big deal at the time, and there was nothing comparable before that. A vaccine being required every three months, indefinitely, is implausible. And it’s a stupid plan, too; how would they ensure all of these women were compliant with getting the “vaccine” every three months? Vaccine uptake rates are low enough as it is. The only way to ensure women would reliably continue to get these injections is if they are something they actively want—i.e., birth control. > 2. There are plenty of preventative treatments that differ between men and women. You can’t seriously expect tens of thousands of women to be injected with birth control and not have any idea of what’s going on. What about when their periods stop and they’re somehow not pregnant? Oh, gee, that’s weird. Guess my daughter and I better keep going back to get these “vaccinations” every three months that my husband and son don’t need for whatever reason. > It is clear from the reporting that there was a concerted government policy to encourage Ethiopian women to have fewer or no children. Apparently you didn’t read the article, because it’s actually not clear at all that there was any such policy. It literally says: > However, there is no clear evidence indicating that the Israeli government or humanitarian organizations involved purposefully coerced women into receiving injections in an effort to reduce birth rates. > The women themselves said they didn’t understand what the shots did. No, they didn’t. Nobody said they didn’t understand that these shots were, in fact, birth control. Some women may not have understood what the side-effects were, or that there were other options for birth control. > But yeah, the reporters calling attention to this horrific policy are the racist ones, got it. I don’t see how anyone can in good faith call this a policy, much less a “horrific” one. And, yes, to believe that such a policy could have been successful in its supposed goals requires one to believe that tens of thousands of immigrant women were foolish enough to unquestioningly take these “vaccines” every three months despite the obvious changes to their bodies and fertility. In other words, one would have to hold blatantly racist and sexist beliefs for the story to be plausible on its face.
- kevinventullo 3y ago
  Hm, there seems to be contradictory reporting. The TOI article states about the television report: “Furthermore, many of the women claimed they were never told that the shots were to prevent pregnancy. Rather, they were under the impression that the shots were vaccinations.” But the detailed investigation from Isha L’Isha (http://isha.org.il/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/%D7%93%D7%A4%D7%95-%D7%90%D7%A0%D7%92%D7%9C%D7%99%D7%AA.pdf http://isha.org.il/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/%D7%93%D7%A4%D...), which also conducted interviews with the women, made no such claim, focusing instead on the lack of understanding of side effects and alternatives.
  - zoky 3y ago
    Is it possible that doctors and other officials stressed the importance of family planning and having fewer children to Ethiopian refugees? Almost certainly. Was that appropriate for them to do? That may be debatable, but it hardly rises to any sort of ethics issue. Were refugees told they had to get vaccinations as a condition for their receiving asylum? Very probably; vaccination is frequently a requirement for asylum seekers in many countries. Were Depo-Provera injections also offered? Yes, we know they were. Were they, like vaccinations, mandatory? There is no evidence that that is the case, and in fact we have several accounts of women electing to stop the injections after getting them for months or years. Is it possible that some female refugees, many of whom could not read, write or speak Hebrew (or even English) very well at all, were under the mistaken impression that the Depo-Provera injections they were initially offered were part of the vaccine series they were required to take? In theory, sure, or perhaps these women were misremembering the details of what happened while they were in the middle of an incredibly stressful and exhausting situation, and later forgot the distinction between what was required and what was optional. But even in these cases, there is no evidence that the women were forced to continue with the Depo-Provera injections against their will once they realized what they were taking, or even that any of them were ultimately unaware that they were taking birth control. Does any of this amount to a policy of forced sterilization (or even forced contraception) of immigrants by the Israeli government? That’s a claim that rises beyond irresponsibility to outright dishonesty. But here we are seeing these lies being spread on HN…