3 ms·

> They must be happy they managed to get a ‘white man bad’ comment in there. They also dedicated a whole article to complaining that it's whites doing the most

> They must be happy they managed to get a ‘white man bad’ comment in there. They also dedicated a whole article to complaining that it's whites doing the most for environmental movements. Their conclusion is always the same, no matter the facts. Why are so many white men trying to save the planet without the rest of us? Climate change affects minorities and women, the elderly and the poor. But the leadership of the environmental movement is pale and male. That doesn't look like progress - https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/08/white-men-environmental-movement-leadership https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/08/white-...

throwaway290 3y ago
Yeah it's totally fine that a group of people that took upon itself to get everyone else to not take airplanes to not eat meat to buy less to recycle more etc. also turns out to be polluting the most...
- simmerup 3y ago
  The fact that you’re willing to stigmatise the people trying to make a difference just because theyre white and male is exactly why racist rhetoric is bad
  - throwaway290 3y ago
    When you point out that some minority is committing most of the crimes it doesn't make you racist if it helps you solve the problem of crime. If you point out those at the top of increasingly inequal world are of one race and gender it's not racist or sexist if it helps you solve the problem of inequality. Labeling things that are inconvenient for you as "racist" is lazy.
- SenAnder 3y ago
  Much of environmentalism is aimed at developed, mostly white countries. You frame it as whites lecturing others, but much of it is whites lecturing other whites. Any tortured logic will do, so long as it finds the right culprit.
  - throwaway290 3y ago
    Totally. No one is shaming developing countries for burning coal and Taiwan with its insanely strict and unforgiving recycling and trash collection policy is oh so very white and developed. The truth is that it's important to not pollute but if it turns out that its main preachers both pollute the most and conspicuously fall in the same gender-racial category then it undermines the whole point since people world over would rightfully be cynical about the idea
    - SenAnder 3y ago
      > No one is shaming developing countries for burning coal I deliberately said "much", not "all". You want them to completely ignore the developing world, that, unlike during the industrial revolution, has wind and solar options, even as they preach for the West to have even fewer children, despite already having sub-replacement fertility? In any case, this is tangential to blaming whites for the inaction of non-whites - despite the article's framing, environmental activism is not a scarce resource that whites have monopolized - anyone can do it. Want to fight climate change? Have fewer children - https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/jul/12/want-to-fight-climate-change-have-fewer-children https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/jul/12/want-to-... Having a child is the grandest act of climate destruction - https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/having-a-child-is-the-grandest-act-of-climate-destruction/ https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/having-a-child-is-the-gr... Science proves kids are bad for Earth. Morality suggests we stop having them. - https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/science-proves-kids-are-bad-earth-morality-suggests-we-stop-ncna820781 https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/science-proves-kids-ar... BirthStrike: The people refusing to have kids, because of ‘the ecological crisis’ - https://edition.cnn.com/2019/06/05/health/birthstrike-climate-change-scn-intl/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2019/06/05/health/birthstrike-climat... Climate change is making people think twice about having children - https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/12/climate-change-is-making-people-think-twice-about-having-children.html https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/12/climate-change-is-making-peo... Would you give up having children to save the planet? Meet the couples who have - https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jun/20/give-up-having-children-couples-save-planet-climate-crisis https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jun/20/give-up-having... A World Without Children - A generation facing an intractable problem debates whether to bring a new generation into the world. - https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2021/09/millennials-babies-climate-change/620032/ https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2021/09/millenn... No Children Because of Climate Change? Some People Are Considering It - https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/05/climate/climate-change-children.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/05/climate/climate-change-ch...

throwaway290 3y ago

Yeah it's totally fine that a group of people that took upon itself to get everyone else to not take airplanes to not eat meat to buy less to recycle more etc. also turns out to be polluting the most...

simmerup 3y ago
The fact that you’re willing to stigmatise the people trying to make a difference just because theyre white and male is exactly why racist rhetoric is bad
- throwaway290 3y ago
  When you point out that some minority is committing most of the crimes it doesn't make you racist if it helps you solve the problem of crime. If you point out those at the top of increasingly inequal world are of one race and gender it's not racist or sexist if it helps you solve the problem of inequality. Labeling things that are inconvenient for you as "racist" is lazy.
SenAnder 3y ago
Much of environmentalism is aimed at developed, mostly white countries. You frame it as whites lecturing others, but much of it is whites lecturing other whites. Any tortured logic will do, so long as it finds the right culprit.
- throwaway290 3y ago
  Totally. No one is shaming developing countries for burning coal and Taiwan with its insanely strict and unforgiving recycling and trash collection policy is oh so very white and developed. The truth is that it's important to not pollute but if it turns out that its main preachers both pollute the most and conspicuously fall in the same gender-racial category then it undermines the whole point since people world over would rightfully be cynical about the idea
  - SenAnder 3y ago
    > No one is shaming developing countries for burning coal I deliberately said "much", not "all". You want them to completely ignore the developing world, that, unlike during the industrial revolution, has wind and solar options, even as they preach for the West to have even fewer children, despite already having sub-replacement fertility? In any case, this is tangential to blaming whites for the inaction of non-whites - despite the article's framing, environmental activism is not a scarce resource that whites have monopolized - anyone can do it. Want to fight climate change? Have fewer children - https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/jul/12/want-to-fight-climate-change-have-fewer-children https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/jul/12/want-to-... Having a child is the grandest act of climate destruction - https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/having-a-child-is-the-grandest-act-of-climate-destruction/ https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/having-a-child-is-the-gr... Science proves kids are bad for Earth. Morality suggests we stop having them. - https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/science-proves-kids-are-bad-earth-morality-suggests-we-stop-ncna820781 https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/science-proves-kids-ar... BirthStrike: The people refusing to have kids, because of ‘the ecological crisis’ - https://edition.cnn.com/2019/06/05/health/birthstrike-climate-change-scn-intl/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2019/06/05/health/birthstrike-climat... Climate change is making people think twice about having children - https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/12/climate-change-is-making-people-think-twice-about-having-children.html https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/12/climate-change-is-making-peo... Would you give up having children to save the planet? Meet the couples who have - https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jun/20/give-up-having-children-couples-save-planet-climate-crisis https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jun/20/give-up-having... A World Without Children - A generation facing an intractable problem debates whether to bring a new generation into the world. - https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2021/09/millennials-babies-climate-change/620032/ https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2021/09/millenn... No Children Because of Climate Change? Some People Are Considering It - https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/05/climate/climate-change-children.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/05/climate/climate-change-ch...