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While the EU has recently forced Microsoft to allow users to uninstall pre-installed crapware, Google is apparently unhindered in their ongoing (and succeeding)

While the EU has recently forced Microsoft to allow users to uninstall pre-installed crapware, Google is apparently unhindered in their ongoing (and succeeding) mission to take control of all layers of the consumer-facing internet.

bad_user 3y ago
Google, Samsung, Apple, and others have to abide by the same law, Microsoft isn't special. I also don't understand what this law has to do with the topic.
- ulrikrasmussen 3y ago
  I support the enforcement of anti-trust laws against Microsoft, but I am at the same time puzzled at how much Google is allowed to get away with. They are simultaneously maintaining the biggest browser platform while also being the biggest content and advertisement provider, AND they have a major influence on the development of web standards, AND they control the development of a major OS (Android) for accessing the web, where their browser comes pre-installed. And now they are actively exploiting their position and trying to sabotage the competition. My point in highlighting it is that I think there is a lack of enforcement of anti-trust laws and/or a lack of laws that would prevent Google behaving in this way, since I think it is so much worse than what Microsoft has been doing with Windows not allowing users to uninstall crapware.
  - bad_user 3y ago
    The law you're mentioning is the “Digital Markets Act”, and it's a new law that will apply to Google, Apple, Amazon, Samsung and others, not having to do with any enforcement of “antitrust” laws upon Microsoft. https://commission.europa.eu/strategy-and-policy/priorities-2019-2024/europe-fit-digital-age/digital-markets-act-ensuring-fair-and-open-digital-markets_en https://commission.europa.eu/strategy-and-policy/priorities-... Furthermore, are we talking about the same Microsoft that: 1. forced usage of Microsoft Edge, while also actively blocking circumvention mechanisms; 2. that keeps hijacking searches for Chrome, or Firefox; 3. that has telemetry in Edge that can't be disabled; 4. and that, upon first opening Edge, it asks you to agree to data sharing with the entire advertising industry? --- You basically assert that Google is receiving preferential treatment from the EU, yet provided absolutely no evidence for it.
    - nicce 3y ago
      > yet provided absolutely no evidence for it. Maybe the absence of evidence is the evidence in this case. (No lawsuits)
    - ulrikrasmussen 3y ago
      I didn't mean to imply that they got preferential treatment, and I also didn't mean to defend what Microsoft has been doing, I just think what Google is doing is even worse. I meant that if Google is allowed to dominate control of the web like they do now, then I think there is a lack of laws to prevent them from continuing that dominance. This may not be because EU lawmakers have been bought or anything, just that they are ignorant towards the issue of a single market player gaining control of all parts of the web.
dschuetz 3y ago
For now. Google is working on making a premium internet based on their services that permeate the whole web which they plan to serve only to "trusted devices" running Chrome - I do not think this is going to work out well for them.
- ulrikrasmussen 3y ago
  I hope not, but they are certainly trying. I fear they have become an uncontrollable behemoth which have failed to identify alternative business models to their unsustainable ad business, and now they are trying to perform a major power grab to basically take over the web and force people to watch ads or pay.
  - aae42 3y ago
    Why is their ad business unsustainable? seems like they just print money, and recent efforts are to simply increase printer speed... Because why wouldn't you...
  - nusl 3y ago
    I suspect that the SEO scam-industry will hit a wall on how far they can push their top-10 lists and advertising will no longer be worth it. Google search results are pretty bad now anyway, since you'll only ever find the sites that game the system. Eventually users will realise this, and advertisers will see negative returns, and Google will lose money. But chances are they'll find another way to keep advertisers paying.
- csydas 3y ago
  Is there maybe some road map or purpose statement on this? it’s not that i don’t believe that this is absolutely true (i’m sure it’s the wet dream of all SV companies…) but google’s offerings are so inconsistent that if that’s really their goal i just can’t see how they mean to get there. every answer to competition is a half baked answer in my experience and i truly just can’t see how google means to do this. google plus i thought was supposed to be this but that did not pan out well at all. and i also don’t see how they can really do this at least in EU, at least not for long until the regulators catch wind.
Algent 3y ago
Chrome have been the IE6 situation all over again for a while now, except this time it's possibly too late to walk back. They are pretty much done taking over the standard.
- robin_reala 3y ago
  To be fair, the IE6 problem wasn’t just massive usage, it was massive usage plus complete stagnation. Chrome has high but not massive usage, and it hasn’t stagnated. It has a separate problem though: the lack of stagnation is actually a drive towards Google’s somewhat unhealthy vision for the web.
  - theshrike79 3y ago
    People keep forgetting that Google is an ad company first, everything else just supports that. And what's better for distributing ads on the internet then controlling the software people use to view said ads - the browser.

bad_user 3y ago

Google, Samsung, Apple, and others have to abide by the same law, Microsoft isn't special. I also don't understand what this law has to do with the topic.

ulrikrasmussen 3y ago
I support the enforcement of anti-trust laws against Microsoft, but I am at the same time puzzled at how much Google is allowed to get away with. They are simultaneously maintaining the biggest browser platform while also being the biggest content and advertisement provider, AND they have a major influence on the development of web standards, AND they control the development of a major OS (Android) for accessing the web, where their browser comes pre-installed. And now they are actively exploiting their position and trying to sabotage the competition. My point in highlighting it is that I think there is a lack of enforcement of anti-trust laws and/or a lack of laws that would prevent Google behaving in this way, since I think it is so much worse than what Microsoft has been doing with Windows not allowing users to uninstall crapware.
- bad_user 3y ago
  The law you're mentioning is the “Digital Markets Act”, and it's a new law that will apply to Google, Apple, Amazon, Samsung and others, not having to do with any enforcement of “antitrust” laws upon Microsoft. https://commission.europa.eu/strategy-and-policy/priorities-2019-2024/europe-fit-digital-age/digital-markets-act-ensuring-fair-and-open-digital-markets_en https://commission.europa.eu/strategy-and-policy/priorities-... Furthermore, are we talking about the same Microsoft that: 1. forced usage of Microsoft Edge, while also actively blocking circumvention mechanisms; 2. that keeps hijacking searches for Chrome, or Firefox; 3. that has telemetry in Edge that can't be disabled; 4. and that, upon first opening Edge, it asks you to agree to data sharing with the entire advertising industry? --- You basically assert that Google is receiving preferential treatment from the EU, yet provided absolutely no evidence for it.
  - nicce 3y ago
    > yet provided absolutely no evidence for it. Maybe the absence of evidence is the evidence in this case. (No lawsuits)
  - ulrikrasmussen 3y ago
    I didn't mean to imply that they got preferential treatment, and I also didn't mean to defend what Microsoft has been doing, I just think what Google is doing is even worse. I meant that if Google is allowed to dominate control of the web like they do now, then I think there is a lack of laws to prevent them from continuing that dominance. This may not be because EU lawmakers have been bought or anything, just that they are ignorant towards the issue of a single market player gaining control of all parts of the web.

dschuetz 3y ago

For now. Google is working on making a premium internet based on their services that permeate the whole web which they plan to serve only to "trusted devices" running Chrome - I do not think this is going to work out well for them.

ulrikrasmussen 3y ago
I hope not, but they are certainly trying. I fear they have become an uncontrollable behemoth which have failed to identify alternative business models to their unsustainable ad business, and now they are trying to perform a major power grab to basically take over the web and force people to watch ads or pay.
- aae42 3y ago
  Why is their ad business unsustainable? seems like they just print money, and recent efforts are to simply increase printer speed... Because why wouldn't you...
- nusl 3y ago
  I suspect that the SEO scam-industry will hit a wall on how far they can push their top-10 lists and advertising will no longer be worth it. Google search results are pretty bad now anyway, since you'll only ever find the sites that game the system. Eventually users will realise this, and advertisers will see negative returns, and Google will lose money. But chances are they'll find another way to keep advertisers paying.
csydas 3y ago
Is there maybe some road map or purpose statement on this? it’s not that i don’t believe that this is absolutely true (i’m sure it’s the wet dream of all SV companies…) but google’s offerings are so inconsistent that if that’s really their goal i just can’t see how they mean to get there. every answer to competition is a half baked answer in my experience and i truly just can’t see how google means to do this. google plus i thought was supposed to be this but that did not pan out well at all. and i also don’t see how they can really do this at least in EU, at least not for long until the regulators catch wind.

Algent 3y ago

Chrome have been the IE6 situation all over again for a while now, except this time it's possibly too late to walk back. They are pretty much done taking over the standard.

robin_reala 3y ago
To be fair, the IE6 problem wasn’t just massive usage, it was massive usage plus complete stagnation. Chrome has high but not massive usage, and it hasn’t stagnated. It has a separate problem though: the lack of stagnation is actually a drive towards Google’s somewhat unhealthy vision for the web.
- theshrike79 3y ago
  People keep forgetting that Google is an ad company first, everything else just supports that. And what's better for distributing ads on the internet then controlling the software people use to view said ads - the browser.