3 ms·

>We see from Tokyo that the current state of the west is neither permanent, nor inevitable. By simply legalizing housing and mixed-use (retail) development, we

>We see from Tokyo that the current state of the west is neither permanent, nor inevitable. By simply legalizing housing and mixed-use (retail) development, we can have much better and cheaper urban areas. They also have a huge high speed rail network, which makes a huge amount of land available to commuters. Highways clog and get congested during rush hour, which reduces speeds drastically. Trains run the same speed all day, every day. Slight nitpick from Tokyo: the commuter trains here aren't "high speed rail", they're just trains and subways, and are pretty slow since they usually stop at every stop. There is high-speed rail (called shinkansen), but it goes between cities, it's not something for commuting unless you're really rich; it's not cheap at all. However, what you see here in Tokyo isn't really workable in America anytime soon. It's not just housing and mixed-use development: you need to get rid of cars too, or else you just won't have the density you need for all those trains/subways to work and be economical. To get density, you need to build everything very close together, and to do that you need to get rid of parking lots, as well as most automobile traffic. There's simply very little parking here, and what parking there is is usually expensive (and probably not all that convenient). So taxis are very common since they're usually faster than trains, and don't need to park and so can take you directly to your destination, but they're expensive too. Trains are cheap, but usually require some walking since lots of places aren't that close to train stations. A 15-minute walk to the station is pretty typical for many people's commute. Many people end up riding bikes to their nearest train station to save time; many stations have large bicycle parking garages for this (expect to pay 100Y/day for this). The trains really do work like clockwork here, but it's really hard to imagine that ever being the reality in America, or most other places to be honest. It's not normal in Europe, even though there are lots of trains there.

underlipton 3y ago
I've only been to Japan briefly, but I do remember there being express commuter trains in the Tokyo/Yokohama area. One little-known fact about the US is that we used to have a widespread streetcar/commuter rail network. Many of these right-of-ways still exist in the form of current roads and bike paths. Some would have to be reestablished, but it's not like the ISHS doesn't habitually eminent domain people's property to build even more and wider roads. I've also thought for a while now that many communities would benefit from (at least) a corner store. Most housing and apartment developments have space that could be used for this purpose (a vacant ground-floor apartment or two, a section of the parking lot, a house). In general, Americans need to start getting used to in-fill development and purpose-shift renovation, because we can't afford new and sprawl anymore.
- shiroiuma 3y ago
  >I do remember there being express commuter trains in the Tokyo/Yokohama area. Those are express trains, not "high speed rail". HSR means bullet trains. Express commuter trains simply skip stations; they're not especially fast. >In general, Americans need to start getting used to in-fill development and purpose-shift renovation, because we can't afford new and sprawl anymore. It's not going to happen anytime soon, because too many Americans love their zoning laws and suburban sprawl and SUVs. The ones with the most political power are all NIMBYs who don't want more development or walkability.
  - underlipton 3y ago
    >Those are express trains, not "high speed rail". I didn't say they were. I was replying to the assertion that there were no alternatives to slow trains that stop at every station, as far as regular people and their commutes are concerned. >It's not going to happen anytime soon, because too many Americans love their zoning laws and suburban sprawl and SUVs. The ones with the most political power are all NIMBYs who don't want more development or walkability. I'm not exactly optimistic, either, but there are definitely places making an effort. The problem extends beyond NIMBYs to a large swath of people who profit from the pain. Pensioners with auto and energy blue chips in their funds' portfolio, REIT investors, zero-tolerance nature lovers who have no hope of stopping existing industry and so focus on nascent projects, etc. We are far beyond NIMBY; a lot of people don't want anything in anyone's backyard. This is partly why I think in-fill and purpose-shifting is important. If you really need a parking lot there, build it under the economically-useful structure.
    - shiroiuma 3y ago
      >I was replying to the assertion that there were no alternatives to slow trains that stop at every station, as far as regular people and their commutes are concerned. There are no alternatives, for many, many lines. Anywhere inside the Yamanote line, there are generally no express lines; all the Tokyo Metro lines stop at every station. It entirely depends on which line you're taking; some lines have express trains, many don't. There are over 120 train lines in the Tokyo metro area; you can't make generalizations like that about them. >This is partly why I think in-fill and purpose-shifting is important. In-fill is necessary if you want America to have the kind of density needed to make public transit economically viable, but it's almost impossible to do as long as car culture is so important and parking requirements exist. Personally, I just gave up on the idea of America being a nice place to live within my lifetime, and moved to Tokyo. Why bother pining for the kind of lifestyle I wish existed in America, when I can just move to a place where it already is the norm?

underlipton 3y ago

I've only been to Japan briefly, but I do remember there being express commuter trains in the Tokyo/Yokohama area. One little-known fact about the US is that we used to have a widespread streetcar/commuter rail network. Many of these right-of-ways still exist in the form of current roads and bike paths. Some would have to be reestablished, but it's not like the ISHS doesn't habitually eminent domain people's property to build even more and wider roads. I've also thought for a while now that many communities would benefit from (at least) a corner store. Most housing and apartment developments have space that could be used for this purpose (a vacant ground-floor apartment or two, a section of the parking lot, a house). In general, Americans need to start getting used to in-fill development and purpose-shift renovation, because we can't afford new and sprawl anymore.

shiroiuma 3y ago
>I do remember there being express commuter trains in the Tokyo/Yokohama area. Those are express trains, not "high speed rail". HSR means bullet trains. Express commuter trains simply skip stations; they're not especially fast. >In general, Americans need to start getting used to in-fill development and purpose-shift renovation, because we can't afford new and sprawl anymore. It's not going to happen anytime soon, because too many Americans love their zoning laws and suburban sprawl and SUVs. The ones with the most political power are all NIMBYs who don't want more development or walkability.
- underlipton 3y ago
  >Those are express trains, not "high speed rail". I didn't say they were. I was replying to the assertion that there were no alternatives to slow trains that stop at every station, as far as regular people and their commutes are concerned. >It's not going to happen anytime soon, because too many Americans love their zoning laws and suburban sprawl and SUVs. The ones with the most political power are all NIMBYs who don't want more development or walkability. I'm not exactly optimistic, either, but there are definitely places making an effort. The problem extends beyond NIMBYs to a large swath of people who profit from the pain. Pensioners with auto and energy blue chips in their funds' portfolio, REIT investors, zero-tolerance nature lovers who have no hope of stopping existing industry and so focus on nascent projects, etc. We are far beyond NIMBY; a lot of people don't want anything in anyone's backyard. This is partly why I think in-fill and purpose-shifting is important. If you really need a parking lot there, build it under the economically-useful structure.
  - shiroiuma 3y ago
    >I was replying to the assertion that there were no alternatives to slow trains that stop at every station, as far as regular people and their commutes are concerned. There are no alternatives, for many, many lines. Anywhere inside the Yamanote line, there are generally no express lines; all the Tokyo Metro lines stop at every station. It entirely depends on which line you're taking; some lines have express trains, many don't. There are over 120 train lines in the Tokyo metro area; you can't make generalizations like that about them. >This is partly why I think in-fill and purpose-shifting is important. In-fill is necessary if you want America to have the kind of density needed to make public transit economically viable, but it's almost impossible to do as long as car culture is so important and parking requirements exist. Personally, I just gave up on the idea of America being a nice place to live within my lifetime, and moved to Tokyo. Why bother pining for the kind of lifestyle I wish existed in America, when I can just move to a place where it already is the norm?