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I don't see the situations similar at all. Cruise is an extremely tough spot right now after its handling of the San Francisco accident, and it's nationwide pa

I don't see the situations similar at all. Cruise is an extremely tough spot right now after its handling of the San Francisco accident, and it's nationwide pause of testing. OpenAI has been extremely successful but is having strategic disagreements within its non-profit board.

minimaxir 3y ago
Growing-too-fast ended up being the root cause in both cases.
- kuchenbecker 3y ago
  What makes you come to that conclusion?
- ssnistfajen 3y ago
  Adding the words "integrity" and "honesty" to the dictionary of many tech companies could do them a lot of good, really.
sillysaurusx 3y ago
Is this the SF accident you mean? I hadn’t heard of it, but this seems not at all worrisome: > At approximately 9:30 p.m. on October 2, a human-driven vehicle struck a pedestrian while traveling in the lane immediately to the left of a Cruise AV. The initial impact was severe and launched the pedestrian directly in front of the AV. The AV then braked aggressively to minimize the impact. The driver of the other vehicle fled the scene, and at the request of the police the AV was kept in place. Why was cruise under fire for this?
- alain94040 3y ago
  You are missing what happened next, which Cruise tried to cover up.
- minimaxir 3y ago
  The accident was one thing, but Cruise's response to regulators about the accident escalated the heat. https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/board-gms-cruise-reviewing-regulatory-response-technology-2023-11-03/ https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/board-...
  - sillysaurusx 3y ago
    I don’t understand, but I suppose I’ll have to accept not understanding. The article vaguely gestures towards some sort of misrepresentation, but doesn’t elaborate. Thank you for pointing it out though.
    - neuronerdgirl 3y ago
      They cut the video they first showed the DMV of the accident to remove the last error made by the car, which was arguably the worst aspect of the accident as far as Cruise's default behavior failures. The DMV found out about the cut segment from the news.
- minwcnt5 3y ago
  Dig deeper, dude. I'm not sure if you're serious or being disingenuous, but the fallout over that incident has been in tech news including several HN threads for the past 6+ weeks.
- ra7 3y ago
  https://techcrunch.com/2023/10/24/dmv-immediately-suspends-cruises-robotaxi-permit-in-california/ https://techcrunch.com/2023/10/24/dmv-immediately-suspends-c...
  - sillysaurusx 3y ago
    Ah, thank you. Them not disclosing the full video from the outset was a mistake, but it’s surprising that it escalated so much. A human driver could’ve easily made the same mistake — pulling over isn’t uncommon after an accident, and there’s no way to detect someone under your car other than getting out, which is usually not very safe. Oh well. Maybe next decade.
    - friendlyasparag 3y ago
      The escalation is perhaps less surprising given that it happened while Cruise had many (much smaller) traffic issues and CPUC was already significantly limiting Cruise. They were on very thin ice.
    - ssnistfajen 3y ago
      Witholding the footage was more than just a mistake. If they are being this dishonest over something that wasn't even entirely their fault, what else could they be hiding? And no, most human drivers would easily detect a human being stuck under their vehicle within seconds.
      - SR2Z 3y ago
        A human driver would have probably been driving over the speed limit in this accident. All of these roads are 25 mph, and yet it's not uncommon to see traffic at 40 mph. There's a good chance the woman would have been _killed outright_ if it hadn't been a Cruise. Are we willing to accept strange and inhuman failure modes if they overall lead to better safety than human drivers?
        ssnistfajen 3y ago
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- nemothekid 3y ago
  Weird - this leaves out the most worrying part of the incident; the woman was pinned under the cruise vehicle and ended up being dragged under the vehicle as the vehicle started moving again. Furthermore, Cruise attempted to cover up the fact that the car dragged the woman. Now that I refresh myself on the details of the situation, it seems you have the "cleaned" PR statement that was pushed by Cruise and had omitted the above details https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2023-10-26/cruise-robotaxi-dragged-injured-woman-misled-reporters https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2023-10-26/cruise-rob...
mcmcmc 3y ago
If you’ll excuse the tinfoil hat, the OpenAI disagreement could very well stem from a dangerous accident or near miss covered up by Altman that we just haven’t learned about yet since the board didn’t publicly state how he deceived them. And that would be pretty analogous to the Cruise situation. Anyway Altman gives me the ick, serious lizard person vibes.
- Exoristos 3y ago
  "OpenAI ... dangerous accident." Like what, giving a freshman wrong dates for the Garfield presidency?
  - mcmcmc 3y ago
    Like giving instructions on how to mix mustard gas to a potential school shooter. Or a manual on how to kill yourself to a depressed teen. Or a blueprint for how to build a bomb to a domestic terrorist.

minimaxir 3y ago

Growing-too-fast ended up being the root cause in both cases.

kuchenbecker 3y ago
What makes you come to that conclusion?
ssnistfajen 3y ago
Adding the words "integrity" and "honesty" to the dictionary of many tech companies could do them a lot of good, really.

sillysaurusx 3y ago

Is this the SF accident you mean? I hadn’t heard of it, but this seems not at all worrisome: > At approximately 9:30 p.m. on October 2, a human-driven vehicle struck a pedestrian while traveling in the lane immediately to the left of a Cruise AV. The initial impact was severe and launched the pedestrian directly in front of the AV. The AV then braked aggressively to minimize the impact. The driver of the other vehicle fled the scene, and at the request of the police the AV was kept in place. Why was cruise under fire for this?

alain94040 3y ago
You are missing what happened next, which Cruise tried to cover up.
minimaxir 3y ago
The accident was one thing, but Cruise's response to regulators about the accident escalated the heat. https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/board-gms-cruise-reviewing-regulatory-response-technology-2023-11-03/ https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/board-...
- sillysaurusx 3y ago
  I don’t understand, but I suppose I’ll have to accept not understanding. The article vaguely gestures towards some sort of misrepresentation, but doesn’t elaborate. Thank you for pointing it out though.
  - neuronerdgirl 3y ago
    They cut the video they first showed the DMV of the accident to remove the last error made by the car, which was arguably the worst aspect of the accident as far as Cruise's default behavior failures. The DMV found out about the cut segment from the news.
minwcnt5 3y ago
Dig deeper, dude. I'm not sure if you're serious or being disingenuous, but the fallout over that incident has been in tech news including several HN threads for the past 6+ weeks.
ra7 3y ago
https://techcrunch.com/2023/10/24/dmv-immediately-suspends-cruises-robotaxi-permit-in-california/ https://techcrunch.com/2023/10/24/dmv-immediately-suspends-c...
- sillysaurusx 3y ago
  Ah, thank you. Them not disclosing the full video from the outset was a mistake, but it’s surprising that it escalated so much. A human driver could’ve easily made the same mistake — pulling over isn’t uncommon after an accident, and there’s no way to detect someone under your car other than getting out, which is usually not very safe. Oh well. Maybe next decade.
  - friendlyasparag 3y ago
    The escalation is perhaps less surprising given that it happened while Cruise had many (much smaller) traffic issues and CPUC was already significantly limiting Cruise. They were on very thin ice.
  - ssnistfajen 3y ago
    Witholding the footage was more than just a mistake. If they are being this dishonest over something that wasn't even entirely their fault, what else could they be hiding? And no, most human drivers would easily detect a human being stuck under their vehicle within seconds.
    - SR2Z 3y ago
      A human driver would have probably been driving over the speed limit in this accident. All of these roads are 25 mph, and yet it's not uncommon to see traffic at 40 mph. There's a good chance the woman would have been _killed outright_ if it hadn't been a Cruise. Are we willing to accept strange and inhuman failure modes if they overall lead to better safety than human drivers?
      - ssnistfajen 3y ago
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
nemothekid 3y ago
Weird - this leaves out the most worrying part of the incident; the woman was pinned under the cruise vehicle and ended up being dragged under the vehicle as the vehicle started moving again. Furthermore, Cruise attempted to cover up the fact that the car dragged the woman. Now that I refresh myself on the details of the situation, it seems you have the "cleaned" PR statement that was pushed by Cruise and had omitted the above details https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2023-10-26/cruise-robotaxi-dragged-injured-woman-misled-reporters https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2023-10-26/cruise-rob...

mcmcmc 3y ago

If you’ll excuse the tinfoil hat, the OpenAI disagreement could very well stem from a dangerous accident or near miss covered up by Altman that we just haven’t learned about yet since the board didn’t publicly state how he deceived them. And that would be pretty analogous to the Cruise situation. Anyway Altman gives me the ick, serious lizard person vibes.

Exoristos 3y ago
"OpenAI ... dangerous accident." Like what, giving a freshman wrong dates for the Garfield presidency?
- mcmcmc 3y ago
  Like giving instructions on how to mix mustard gas to a potential school shooter. Or a manual on how to kill yourself to a depressed teen. Or a blueprint for how to build a bomb to a domestic terrorist.