6 ms·

It is a 3rd world pattern: countries with weak and ineffective institutions turn politics into a personality cult where authoritarian charismatic saviours with

It is a 3rd world pattern: countries with weak and ineffective institutions turn politics into a personality cult where authoritarian charismatic saviours with lunatic ideas are preferred to sensible and pragmatic policies. You know these types: Jair Bolsonaro, Sivio Berlusconi, V. Orbán, R. Duterte, Hugo Chávez, Nayib Bukele, Daniel Ortega, Narendra Modi and ... yeah, the most famous one. I don't need to mention him. Funny thing is that Argentina already experienced some of Milei's ideas before, under Menem, with disastrous results.

wslh 3y ago
Trump is a populist in a first world country so charismatic saviours exist beyond the third world. Italy is also a first world country by definition.
- diego_moita 3y ago
  > Trump is a populist You see? I didn't need to mention him. As I wrote he is the most obvious one. :-) But the truth is that the US doesn't have an history of populist demagogues as rich as 3rd world countries. There is Trump and nothing as him before. Italy might be a first world country. But it's political institutions are very dysfunctional.
  - lossolo 3y ago
    > But the truth is that the US doesn't have an history of populist demagogues as rich as 3rd world countries. There is Trump and nothing as him before. The US had a good economy for many decades, while 3rd world countries did not. This led to more desperation in those countries. In the last 1-2 decades, jobs have been shipped from the US to other countries due to globalization, leaving some people feeling left behind. The US now has the highest inequality since 100 years[1]. While not being part of that group, I understand the concerns of those who voted the way they did, as desperation is a strong motivator. 1. https://media.newyorker.com/photos/590951552179605b11ad2f98/master/pass/chart-01.jpg https://media.newyorker.com/photos/590951552179605b11ad2f98/...
  - wslh 3y ago
    You can see a lot more populists than Trump in US even if they were not elected yet.
  - Dalewyn 3y ago
    >But the truth is that the US doesn't have an history of populist demagogues as rich as 3rd world countries. There is Trump and nothing as him before. George Washington, literally the first POTUS, was as populist as he could be. Likewise Thomas Jefferson, Abraham Lincoln, and Theodore Roosevelt; they are all on Mt. Rushmore because they were popular both at the time of their elections and during and after their tenures. Benjamin Franklin was also popular with the people even though he never held a public office as prominent as POTUS; Franklin's political roles were much more subdued, such as his time as Postmaster-General or the ambassador to France.
    - reducesuffering 3y ago
      populist doesn't mean popular. That you don't understand these political terms speaks well on the competence of Milei supporters. There is simultaneously left wing populism and right wing populism at the same time, yet not both can be a majority.
wslh 3y ago
> Funny thing is that Argentina already experienced some of Milei's ideas before, under Menem, with disastrous results. We don't know yet if he will have the same execution. What we know is that the current government is a populist one and has the record of reaching 50% of poverty.
- surgical_fire 3y ago
  > We don't know yet if he will have the same execution This movie has been repeated in South America far too many times. This is just the next disaster in the making. Was not the first one, will not be the last one.
  - wslh 3y ago
    Argentina is in South America but as Simon Kuznets [1] said "there are four types of countries in the world—developed, undeveloped, Japan and Argentina". I am not saying this could not be the next disaster but that the other party also offers a disaster that we already know. It is also interesting to note that local politics in South America are more linked to the world that citizens recognize while many intelectuals try to give a hyperlocal narrative. Startup wise Argentina is very unique and even if companies at the end are generally incorporated in USA there are a myriad of well known companies that were ignored or attacked by the governments. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon_Kuznets https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon_Kuznets
Izikiel43 3y ago
> countries with weak and ineffective institutions turn politics into a personality cult where authoritarian charismatic saviours with lunatic ideas are preferred to sensible and pragmatic policies. Ehh, do you know about Cristina kirchner (current vp), Néstor kirchner? They’ve been ruling the country since 2003. > sensible and pragmatic policies Reduce public spending, reduce taxes is not a sensible and pragmatic policy?
- CapstanRoller 3y ago
  >Reduce public spending Austerity kills.
  - Izikiel43 3y ago
    Overspending also kills, and Argentina is currently in the overspending scenario.
    - CapstanRoller 3y ago
      >Overspending Money itself isn't real. Resources are.

wslh 3y ago

Trump is a populist in a first world country so charismatic saviours exist beyond the third world. Italy is also a first world country by definition.

diego_moita 3y ago
> Trump is a populist You see? I didn't need to mention him. As I wrote he is the most obvious one. :-) But the truth is that the US doesn't have an history of populist demagogues as rich as 3rd world countries. There is Trump and nothing as him before. Italy might be a first world country. But it's political institutions are very dysfunctional.
- lossolo 3y ago
  > But the truth is that the US doesn't have an history of populist demagogues as rich as 3rd world countries. There is Trump and nothing as him before. The US had a good economy for many decades, while 3rd world countries did not. This led to more desperation in those countries. In the last 1-2 decades, jobs have been shipped from the US to other countries due to globalization, leaving some people feeling left behind. The US now has the highest inequality since 100 years[1]. While not being part of that group, I understand the concerns of those who voted the way they did, as desperation is a strong motivator. 1. https://media.newyorker.com/photos/590951552179605b11ad2f98/master/pass/chart-01.jpg https://media.newyorker.com/photos/590951552179605b11ad2f98/...
- wslh 3y ago
  You can see a lot more populists than Trump in US even if they were not elected yet.
- Dalewyn 3y ago
  >But the truth is that the US doesn't have an history of populist demagogues as rich as 3rd world countries. There is Trump and nothing as him before. George Washington, literally the first POTUS, was as populist as he could be. Likewise Thomas Jefferson, Abraham Lincoln, and Theodore Roosevelt; they are all on Mt. Rushmore because they were popular both at the time of their elections and during and after their tenures. Benjamin Franklin was also popular with the people even though he never held a public office as prominent as POTUS; Franklin's political roles were much more subdued, such as his time as Postmaster-General or the ambassador to France.
  - reducesuffering 3y ago
    populist doesn't mean popular. That you don't understand these political terms speaks well on the competence of Milei supporters. There is simultaneously left wing populism and right wing populism at the same time, yet not both can be a majority.

wslh 3y ago

> Funny thing is that Argentina already experienced some of Milei's ideas before, under Menem, with disastrous results. We don't know yet if he will have the same execution. What we know is that the current government is a populist one and has the record of reaching 50% of poverty.

surgical_fire 3y ago
> We don't know yet if he will have the same execution This movie has been repeated in South America far too many times. This is just the next disaster in the making. Was not the first one, will not be the last one.
- wslh 3y ago
  Argentina is in South America but as Simon Kuznets [1] said "there are four types of countries in the world—developed, undeveloped, Japan and Argentina". I am not saying this could not be the next disaster but that the other party also offers a disaster that we already know. It is also interesting to note that local politics in South America are more linked to the world that citizens recognize while many intelectuals try to give a hyperlocal narrative. Startup wise Argentina is very unique and even if companies at the end are generally incorporated in USA there are a myriad of well known companies that were ignored or attacked by the governments. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon_Kuznets https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon_Kuznets

Izikiel43 3y ago

> countries with weak and ineffective institutions turn politics into a personality cult where authoritarian charismatic saviours with lunatic ideas are preferred to sensible and pragmatic policies. Ehh, do you know about Cristina kirchner (current vp), Néstor kirchner? They’ve been ruling the country since 2003. > sensible and pragmatic policies Reduce public spending, reduce taxes is not a sensible and pragmatic policy?

CapstanRoller 3y ago
>Reduce public spending Austerity kills.
- Izikiel43 3y ago
  Overspending also kills, and Argentina is currently in the overspending scenario.
  - CapstanRoller 3y ago
    >Overspending Money itself isn't real. Resources are.