2 ms·

Have you looked at various leaders in places like France, the Netherlands, the UK, Germany?!?

by oblio 3y ago

alephnerd 3y ago
Europe in general is the backup plan for most immigrants. Our parents preferred immigrating to US, Canada, Australia, or New Zealand instead. You only ended up in Europe if you couldn't end up in those 4. Netherlands and the UK have only started to change in the past 5-10 years. Aside from politics, British Asians honestly aren't that notable in the business space. Most British Asian billionaires tend to be Indian and Pakistani oligarchs to took British citizenship (eg. Hinduja). The British Asian community always felt pretty dislocated and isolated compared to those of us in the US+Canada, despite us being a newer community in North America. In Netherlands, similar story, though there has been a recent increase in white collar Asian immigration after the US Visa regime became much more backlogged. Can't speak for the Arab+Turkish community in France and Germany, but I had a Tunisian coworker who made a point of how he preferred being in the US over France or Belgium. And on the German side, it's the backup plan for most immigrants as well. I can't think of a notable Turkish German or Arab German role model outside of arts and politics except for the COVID Vaccine guy, and that was very recent.
- oblio 3y ago
  Language. English is greatly preferred as a language these days.
  - alephnerd 3y ago
    Not just language. Also social mobility. For example, in the 70s-90s Lebanese would have an easy time emigrating to France (and many have) due to French fluency, yet plenty preferred moving to Australia, Canada, or the US instead as there were more opportunities to climb up. Conversely, there is plenty of Chinese and Indian immigration to Europe, but it tends to be blue collar in origin, as opportunities and social mobility is simply harder in Europe if you're an other. Take a look at the Arab community in the US versus Germany for example - the American half is heavily Levantine (Palestinian, Jordanian, Syrian, Lebanese) like in Germany, yet better assimilated than the equivalent communities in Germany (even before the civil war). There have been Arab Americans as Governors (Atiyeh, Sununu) and Business Leaders (Maloof, Yagan, Salhany, Halaby), yet not in Germany.
    - oblio 3y ago
      Ummm... it's also about <<who>> emigrated where. The US, Canada and Australia get upper middle class/upper class immigrants. Naturally they're more upwardly socially mobile. Europe basically gets anyone who can fly 2 hours, get on a boat for 20 hours or drive/be driven for 20 hours.

Have you looked at various leaders in places like France, the Netherlands, the UK, Germany?!?

by oblio 3y ago

Have you looked at various leaders in places like France, the Netherlands, the UK, Germany?!?

Europe in general is the backup plan for most immigrants. Our parents preferred immigrating to US, Canada, Australia, or New Zealand instead. You only ended up in Europe if you couldn't end up in those 4. Netherlands and the UK have only started to change in the past 5-10 years. Aside from politics, British Asians honestly aren't that notable in the business space. Most British Asian billionaires tend to be Indian and Pakistani oligarchs to took British citizenship (eg. Hinduja). The British Asian community always felt pretty dislocated and isolated compared to those of us in the US+Canada, despite us being a newer community in North America. In Netherlands, similar story, though there has been a recent increase in white collar Asian immigration after the US Visa regime became much more backlogged. Can't speak for the Arab+Turkish community in France and Germany, but I had a Tunisian coworker who made a point of how he preferred being in the US over France or Belgium. And on the German side, it's the backup plan for most immigrants as well. I can't think of a notable Turkish German or Arab German role model outside of arts and politics except for the COVID Vaccine guy, and that was very recent.

oblio 3y ago
Language. English is greatly preferred as a language these days.
- alephnerd 3y ago
  Not just language. Also social mobility. For example, in the 70s-90s Lebanese would have an easy time emigrating to France (and many have) due to French fluency, yet plenty preferred moving to Australia, Canada, or the US instead as there were more opportunities to climb up. Conversely, there is plenty of Chinese and Indian immigration to Europe, but it tends to be blue collar in origin, as opportunities and social mobility is simply harder in Europe if you're an other. Take a look at the Arab community in the US versus Germany for example - the American half is heavily Levantine (Palestinian, Jordanian, Syrian, Lebanese) like in Germany, yet better assimilated than the equivalent communities in Germany (even before the civil war). There have been Arab Americans as Governors (Atiyeh, Sununu) and Business Leaders (Maloof, Yagan, Salhany, Halaby), yet not in Germany.
  - oblio 3y ago
    Ummm... it's also about <<who>> emigrated where. The US, Canada and Australia get upper middle class/upper class immigrants. Naturally they're more upwardly socially mobile. Europe basically gets anyone who can fly 2 hours, get on a boat for 20 hours or drive/be driven for 20 hours.