26 ms·

You say you've identified specific types of immigrants that are incompatible with western liberal values. Who are they and how do you know?

oblio 3y ago
Well, I think the key think to understand here is that it's not about genetics, despite what idiots keep harping on. We're all apes and a random individual transplanted in another group after birth will quickly start accumulating cultural traits from that group. That said, culture is strong and it's even stronger in the internet era, especially for large groups of individuals. It's extremely hard to bend or break it. To that point, there is a great book, Armies of Sand, that talks about a concept called the culturally regular individual. And the book makes a decent point that the culturally regular person from a specific culture is probably a distant match to Western ideals. And that distant culture has quite bad results in many areas we would consider important for modern society: education, research, industrial output. I'll let you research more on this topic.
- debatem1 3y ago
  I think that if you had a specific and defensible point about immigration policy you would have put it here. What you actually put takes great care to be so indirect that you cannot even be identified as having a specific position, let alone one that can be discussed in a rational way. Given the number of words you spent on it I'd guess that means it's either unserious or unsavory, and don't really care to parse which is which.
  - oblio 3y ago
    Read the book. The conclusion is very "unsavory" for the target group. "Unsavory" in the sense that it's a very harsh conclusion that unfortunately matches many stereotypes.
  - oblio 3y ago
    An example: > In this chapter I am going to demonstrate that Arab education, in all its various forms, teaches the values of the dominant Arab culture. Education in the Arab world, both formal and informal, constantly seeks to mold the actions and thinking of the individual along the lines of the culturally regular patterns of behavior described in Chapter 17. > <<<Arab families and schools teach conformity, deference to authority, loyalty to the group, etc>>>. It isn’t found in the formal curriculum. You won’t find a class in any Arab school called “Conformism 101.” Instead, you will find it in the teaching method itself: in how students are taught to think, to learn, and to behave. Page 417. Read the book. Stop projecting. It's a complex matter and for some stuff people REALLY love to put their heads in the sand. Some problems need to be tackled head on, as Denmark is doing at the moment.
    - debatem1 3y ago
      I asked you to be specific about who and why and you still have not done that. I am getting from this that you aren't keen on schooling based on conformism and that you believe Arab schools teach conformism. Leaving aside the question of whether that position has merit, what would you do with that information? Would you ban immigration by Arabs? From Arabic countries? By people educated in Arabic schools, who may not be Arabs and may not come from Arabic countries? What about ethnic minorities in Arabic countries like the Kurds in Iraq, who maintain a parallel school system? What about individuals schooled in conformance-centric religious schools in the US, or in non-Arab conformist cultures like Japan? Spell out what you're trying to do.
      - oblio 3y ago
        Points based visa system, like in Canada. Dock points for countries with different alphabets, bad educational systems, bad research & development, etc, give extra points if they can prove "extra curriculars" that align with the local values, for example volunteering, civic action, etc. Oh, give extra points if the countries have strong ties to the EU, economic and otherwise. For example trade agreements, cultural exchange programs, etc. Send back every illegal economic migrant. Saw a comment recently about a Guinean that was in Tunisia (safe country), Algeria (safe), Switzerland (safe), France (safe), but they absolutely, positively, HAD to be in Luxembourg.

oblio 3y ago

Well, I think the key think to understand here is that it's not about genetics, despite what idiots keep harping on. We're all apes and a random individual transplanted in another group after birth will quickly start accumulating cultural traits from that group. That said, culture is strong and it's even stronger in the internet era, especially for large groups of individuals. It's extremely hard to bend or break it. To that point, there is a great book, Armies of Sand, that talks about a concept called the culturally regular individual. And the book makes a decent point that the culturally regular person from a specific culture is probably a distant match to Western ideals. And that distant culture has quite bad results in many areas we would consider important for modern society: education, research, industrial output. I'll let you research more on this topic.

debatem1 3y ago
I think that if you had a specific and defensible point about immigration policy you would have put it here. What you actually put takes great care to be so indirect that you cannot even be identified as having a specific position, let alone one that can be discussed in a rational way. Given the number of words you spent on it I'd guess that means it's either unserious or unsavory, and don't really care to parse which is which.
- oblio 3y ago
  Read the book. The conclusion is very "unsavory" for the target group. "Unsavory" in the sense that it's a very harsh conclusion that unfortunately matches many stereotypes.
- oblio 3y ago
  An example: > In this chapter I am going to demonstrate that Arab education, in all its various forms, teaches the values of the dominant Arab culture. Education in the Arab world, both formal and informal, constantly seeks to mold the actions and thinking of the individual along the lines of the culturally regular patterns of behavior described in Chapter 17. > <<<Arab families and schools teach conformity, deference to authority, loyalty to the group, etc>>>. It isn’t found in the formal curriculum. You won’t find a class in any Arab school called “Conformism 101.” Instead, you will find it in the teaching method itself: in how students are taught to think, to learn, and to behave. Page 417. Read the book. Stop projecting. It's a complex matter and for some stuff people REALLY love to put their heads in the sand. Some problems need to be tackled head on, as Denmark is doing at the moment.
  - debatem1 3y ago
    I asked you to be specific about who and why and you still have not done that. I am getting from this that you aren't keen on schooling based on conformism and that you believe Arab schools teach conformism. Leaving aside the question of whether that position has merit, what would you do with that information? Would you ban immigration by Arabs? From Arabic countries? By people educated in Arabic schools, who may not be Arabs and may not come from Arabic countries? What about ethnic minorities in Arabic countries like the Kurds in Iraq, who maintain a parallel school system? What about individuals schooled in conformance-centric religious schools in the US, or in non-Arab conformist cultures like Japan? Spell out what you're trying to do.
    - oblio 3y ago
      Points based visa system, like in Canada. Dock points for countries with different alphabets, bad educational systems, bad research & development, etc, give extra points if they can prove "extra curriculars" that align with the local values, for example volunteering, civic action, etc. Oh, give extra points if the countries have strong ties to the EU, economic and otherwise. For example trade agreements, cultural exchange programs, etc. Send back every illegal economic migrant. Saw a comment recently about a Guinean that was in Tunisia (safe country), Algeria (safe), Switzerland (safe), France (safe), but they absolutely, positively, HAD to be in Luxembourg.