3 ms·

Windows Refund Day – When Linux users demanded their money back (2019) [video]

schoen 3y ago
I was there! And I recognize so many people in the video. And they look so young, of course. The large penguins held up by Rick Moen (early on) and Eric Raymond (later) were mine, and I still have them. I also still have the letter that Microsoft handed out to everyone. Text is still at http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/dear-valued-customer.html http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/dear-valued-customer.html It was a very fun time... though I wish people had actually gotten their refunds. It's still not routinely possible to get computers without a preinstalled operating system from most manufacturers in the U.S., even decades later.
- zeruch 3y ago
  Same. I was there briefly (disclosure: former VA Linux...we dropped a lot of swag around the event) It was a surreal moment.
- mattl 3y ago
  Yeah I’ve only had a couple Windows-capable ones that shipped without it. Most recently a stack of a dozen Dell machines
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- pjmlp 3y ago
  In Germany is quite easy, however it hardly changed anything on how well GNU/Linux might actually fully support all the hardware one paid for. With luck there is a kind of sponsored distribution, but better stay on that one forever, or risk having some long weekends fun getting everything to work as much as possible. The only way to get my Asus 1215B to actually use the network without issues, is to plug it via LAN cable, after all these years I have given up having a stable WLAN conection, where everything else (Windows/Android/WebOS/macOS) just works.
  - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
    >In Germany is quite easy I think everywhere in Europe you can easily get new PCs without Windows bundled with them, especially in Eastern Europe where a lot of Laptops in the shops only come with Free-DOS by default as consumers would rather save the ~100 Euro Windows license on the machines and sort the Windows situation later at much cheaper price on the gray market.
    - neuromanser 3y ago
      No grey market: it's legal to sell on used software licenses in the EU, see Directive 2009/24/EC article 4 para 2. I buy Windows PRO licenses for about 20EUR. Laptops sold without Windows preinstalled are still a rare sight.
      - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
        >I buy Windows PRO licenses for about 20EUR. You're overpaying. Windows is free to use if you can live with the activation watermark, or I paid 2,6 Euros for a PRO license on Ebay. 20 Euros for what Windows is today, is already expensive. >Laptops sold without Windows preinstalled are still a rare sight. Go to Romania. About half of the more budget friendly laptops on shelves are sold with Free-DOS.
        neuromanser 3y ago
        Both suggestions would net me in the best case way less than I stand to lose in the worst case.
        AlexeyBelov 3y ago
        Can you elaborate?
      - BSDobelix 3y ago
        >it's legal to sell on used software licenses in the EU But in Germany you get sued in the first place for buying "keys with unreasonably low prices" (Lizengo). https://linustechtips.com/topic/1313408-thousands-of-criminal-cases-opened-in-germany-for-buying-windows-licenses-over-3rd-party-reseller/ https://linustechtips.com/topic/1313408-thousands-of-crimina...
- prmoustache 3y ago
  > It's still not routinely possible to get computers without a preinstalled operating system from most manufacturers in the U.S., even decades later. In brick and mortar shops yes. However online it is pretty easy nowadays to buy a computer without an OS or with a preinstalled linux distro which you aren't paying a license for.
admp 3y ago
(1999) actually
- quink 3y ago
  Not really, the video and extensive commentary is from 2019.
thr0waway001 3y ago
Join us now and Share the Software....
- gattilorenz 3y ago
  The metal cover of that song started playing immediately in my mind. I probably haven’t heard it in more than 15 years, thanks for the trigger :)
IntelMiner 3y ago
"Followup" video from the same author https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1y_mPUQPPA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1y_mPUQPPA
pjmlp 3y ago
Looking at Steam statistics, and desktop hardware usage, hardly changed anything, regardless of how messed up some Windows releases have been.
zoobab 3y ago
I heard the rumor from some AFUL Detaxe members that there was even a case atthe CJEU and that the cause was lost. I would be interested to know more.
type0 3y ago
I tried calling MS to get a refund in 2000s, they said we had no right to it because our PC was bought for a company. EU has protection for consumer rights, but if you are a small company juggernauts like MS can pretty much tell you go f* yourself.
penguin_booze 3y ago
I say it's time to bring it back. Until a while ago, if I go to an onilne store, I used to have an option to buy a laptop without any OS. Now, that option seems to have vanished. Everything [0] ships with--guess what--Windows 11: a special kind of software that turns your laptop into an expensive room heater! [0] I'm sure there are exceptions somewhere inaccessible to me.
- cherryteastain 3y ago
  Lenovo lets you configure some Thinkpad models with Linux or no preinstalled OS. I think some HP Elitebook and Dell XPS models have this option too. Just need to order online.

I was there! And I recognize so many people in the video. And they look so young, of course. The large penguins held up by Rick Moen (early on) and Eric Raymond (later) were mine, and I still have them. I also still have the letter that Microsoft handed out to everyone. Text is still at http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/dear-valued-customer.html http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/dear-valued-customer.html It was a very fun time... though I wish people had actually gotten their refunds. It's still not routinely possible to get computers without a preinstalled operating system from most manufacturers in the U.S., even decades later.

zeruch 3y ago
Same. I was there briefly (disclosure: former VA Linux...we dropped a lot of swag around the event) It was a surreal moment.
mattl 3y ago
Yeah I’ve only had a couple Windows-capable ones that shipped without it. Most recently a stack of a dozen Dell machines
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
pjmlp 3y ago
In Germany is quite easy, however it hardly changed anything on how well GNU/Linux might actually fully support all the hardware one paid for. With luck there is a kind of sponsored distribution, but better stay on that one forever, or risk having some long weekends fun getting everything to work as much as possible. The only way to get my Asus 1215B to actually use the network without issues, is to plug it via LAN cable, after all these years I have given up having a stable WLAN conection, where everything else (Windows/Android/WebOS/macOS) just works.
- FirmwareBurner 3y ago
  >In Germany is quite easy I think everywhere in Europe you can easily get new PCs without Windows bundled with them, especially in Eastern Europe where a lot of Laptops in the shops only come with Free-DOS by default as consumers would rather save the ~100 Euro Windows license on the machines and sort the Windows situation later at much cheaper price on the gray market.
  - neuromanser 3y ago
    No grey market: it's legal to sell on used software licenses in the EU, see Directive 2009/24/EC article 4 para 2. I buy Windows PRO licenses for about 20EUR. Laptops sold without Windows preinstalled are still a rare sight.
    - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
      >I buy Windows PRO licenses for about 20EUR. You're overpaying. Windows is free to use if you can live with the activation watermark, or I paid 2,6 Euros for a PRO license on Ebay. 20 Euros for what Windows is today, is already expensive. >Laptops sold without Windows preinstalled are still a rare sight. Go to Romania. About half of the more budget friendly laptops on shelves are sold with Free-DOS.
      - neuromanser 3y ago
        Both suggestions would net me in the best case way less than I stand to lose in the worst case.
        AlexeyBelov 3y ago
        Can you elaborate?
    - BSDobelix 3y ago
      >it's legal to sell on used software licenses in the EU But in Germany you get sued in the first place for buying "keys with unreasonably low prices" (Lizengo). https://linustechtips.com/topic/1313408-thousands-of-criminal-cases-opened-in-germany-for-buying-windows-licenses-over-3rd-party-reseller/ https://linustechtips.com/topic/1313408-thousands-of-crimina...
prmoustache 3y ago
> It's still not routinely possible to get computers without a preinstalled operating system from most manufacturers in the U.S., even decades later. In brick and mortar shops yes. However online it is pretty easy nowadays to buy a computer without an OS or with a preinstalled linux distro which you aren't paying a license for.

admp 3y ago

(1999) actually

quink 3y ago
Not really, the video and extensive commentary is from 2019.

thr0waway001 3y ago

Join us now and Share the Software....

gattilorenz 3y ago
The metal cover of that song started playing immediately in my mind. I probably haven’t heard it in more than 15 years, thanks for the trigger :)

IntelMiner 3y ago

"Followup" video from the same author https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1y_mPUQPPA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1y_mPUQPPA

pjmlp 3y ago

Looking at Steam statistics, and desktop hardware usage, hardly changed anything, regardless of how messed up some Windows releases have been.

zoobab 3y ago

I heard the rumor from some AFUL Detaxe members that there was even a case atthe CJEU and that the cause was lost. I would be interested to know more.

type0 3y ago

I tried calling MS to get a refund in 2000s, they said we had no right to it because our PC was bought for a company. EU has protection for consumer rights, but if you are a small company juggernauts like MS can pretty much tell you go f* yourself.

penguin_booze 3y ago

I say it's time to bring it back. Until a while ago, if I go to an onilne store, I used to have an option to buy a laptop without any OS. Now, that option seems to have vanished. Everything [0] ships with--guess what--Windows 11: a special kind of software that turns your laptop into an expensive room heater! [0] I'm sure there are exceptions somewhere inaccessible to me.

cherryteastain 3y ago
Lenovo lets you configure some Thinkpad models with Linux or no preinstalled OS. I think some HP Elitebook and Dell XPS models have this option too. Just need to order online.