5 ms·

In the left corner, Microsoft and the guy that founded Loopt. In the right corner the company that created and still completely controls GPT-4. Why are you so

by CPLX 3y ago

In the left corner, Microsoft and the guy that founded Loopt. In the right corner the company that created and still completely controls GPT-4. Why are you so sure about who wins this face off?

paulddraper 3y ago
GPT-4 costs insane amounts of money
toomuchtodo 3y ago
Because you can't train and operate models at scale with ideology. Costs money and compute. Without funding and compute, OpenAI is a bunch of smart folks with laptops talking AI safety in an office until the cashflow dries up. People who want to get paid or are loyal to Sam will follow Sam. Microsoft is clearly behind Sam. "Whoever holds the gold makes the rules." EDIT: gkoberger said it far better, and captures the value beyond the physical and fiat components of the power struggle: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38337782 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38337782 "I don't think he's on his own. All those people he helped in the past have come out to support him. Almost his entire company (minus the board) has publicly supported him. His team is currently hosting him at the office with hopes to reinstate him. The CEO who temporarily replaced him has publicly and privately supported his return. OpenAI's investors are backing him. His cofounder quit in solidarity. Turns out the secret to getting through something like this is to simply have spent the past 15+ years genuinely helping everyone you've ever come across."
- CPLX 3y ago
  OpenAI has the most valuable new technology product in a generation and it’s already monetized. It’s also a charity and could give a fuck about growth beyond the extent needed to meet their goals. The idea that Microsoft is somehow the one irreplaceable part of this formula is completely fucking bizzare.
  - linkgoron 3y ago
    OpenAI is not a "thing", the workers are a thing. OpenAI is nothing if the engineers/scientists leave the company to work somewhere else if Altman leaves. According to reports, the head of research and other senior staff have said that they will resign if Altman is not restored as CEO.
    - CPLX 3y ago
      Yes that’s somewhat correct. If he really has the loyalty of a huge percentage of the staff and they leave to follow him you’re right. But you might want to question why you’re so sure that’s the case. People talk about that a lot but it’s pretty rare to actually see that happen. The usual way things like this go is most people go huh how about that and go back to work at their job the next day and think about their family and weekend plans. In his case it’s especially odd given his oddly thin track record of actual success. He seems incredibly good at ingratiating himself with extremely powerful people, but there’s no evidence at all of him being a popular leader or particularly good at building and executing on anything. Ask yourself how he got his last two jobs. He wasn’t exactly voted in due to widespread popular support. In both cases however he departed abruptly amidst what looks like interpersonal conflict.
      - geodel 3y ago
        > But you might want to question why you’re so sure that’s the case. People talk about that a lot but it’s pretty rare to actually see that happen. Difference here is OpenAI is not Google or FB with tens of thousands of employees bulk of which are engineers most likely not be able to get current level of compensation in case of mass layoff/resignations. OpenAI is couple of hundred people and are highly rated due to perceived level of success. So it is opposite of risk to follow the leader who has gotten them high level of compensation so far. > He seems incredibly good at ingratiating himself with extremely powerful people You seem to think it is negative. For most people including OpenAI employees it is great advantage to be working for/with him.
  - notabee 3y ago
    Well, now we know that once any putative superintelligence learns how to wave money around, we're doomed. All the preparatory "alignment" isn't going to save us from our own greed.
- dragonwriter 3y ago
  > Because you can't train and operate models at scale with ideology. Costs money and compute. Without funding and compute, OpenAI is a bunch of smart folks with laptops talking AI safety in an office until the cashflow dries up. Without its exclusive relationship to Microsoft, there are other people with access to money and compute that would like a leg up in the enterprise AI space that Microsoft would be taking a major, even if (optimistically) temporary, step back from its leading position in by terminating its relationship with OpenAI.

by CPLX 3y ago

In the left corner, Microsoft and the guy that founded Loopt. In the right corner the company that created and still completely controls GPT-4. Why are you so sure about who wins this face off?

paulddraper 3y ago

GPT-4 costs insane amounts of money

toomuchtodo 3y ago

Because you can't train and operate models at scale with ideology. Costs money and compute. Without funding and compute, OpenAI is a bunch of smart folks with laptops talking AI safety in an office until the cashflow dries up. People who want to get paid or are loyal to Sam will follow Sam. Microsoft is clearly behind Sam. "Whoever holds the gold makes the rules." EDIT: gkoberger said it far better, and captures the value beyond the physical and fiat components of the power struggle: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38337782 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38337782 "I don't think he's on his own. All those people he helped in the past have come out to support him. Almost his entire company (minus the board) has publicly supported him. His team is currently hosting him at the office with hopes to reinstate him. The CEO who temporarily replaced him has publicly and privately supported his return. OpenAI's investors are backing him. His cofounder quit in solidarity. Turns out the secret to getting through something like this is to simply have spent the past 15+ years genuinely helping everyone you've ever come across."

CPLX 3y ago
OpenAI has the most valuable new technology product in a generation and it’s already monetized. It’s also a charity and could give a fuck about growth beyond the extent needed to meet their goals. The idea that Microsoft is somehow the one irreplaceable part of this formula is completely fucking bizzare.
- linkgoron 3y ago
  OpenAI is not a "thing", the workers are a thing. OpenAI is nothing if the engineers/scientists leave the company to work somewhere else if Altman leaves. According to reports, the head of research and other senior staff have said that they will resign if Altman is not restored as CEO.
  - CPLX 3y ago
    Yes that’s somewhat correct. If he really has the loyalty of a huge percentage of the staff and they leave to follow him you’re right. But you might want to question why you’re so sure that’s the case. People talk about that a lot but it’s pretty rare to actually see that happen. The usual way things like this go is most people go huh how about that and go back to work at their job the next day and think about their family and weekend plans. In his case it’s especially odd given his oddly thin track record of actual success. He seems incredibly good at ingratiating himself with extremely powerful people, but there’s no evidence at all of him being a popular leader or particularly good at building and executing on anything. Ask yourself how he got his last two jobs. He wasn’t exactly voted in due to widespread popular support. In both cases however he departed abruptly amidst what looks like interpersonal conflict.
    - geodel 3y ago
      > But you might want to question why you’re so sure that’s the case. People talk about that a lot but it’s pretty rare to actually see that happen. Difference here is OpenAI is not Google or FB with tens of thousands of employees bulk of which are engineers most likely not be able to get current level of compensation in case of mass layoff/resignations. OpenAI is couple of hundred people and are highly rated due to perceived level of success. So it is opposite of risk to follow the leader who has gotten them high level of compensation so far. > He seems incredibly good at ingratiating himself with extremely powerful people You seem to think it is negative. For most people including OpenAI employees it is great advantage to be working for/with him.
- notabee 3y ago
  Well, now we know that once any putative superintelligence learns how to wave money around, we're doomed. All the preparatory "alignment" isn't going to save us from our own greed.
dragonwriter 3y ago
> Because you can't train and operate models at scale with ideology. Costs money and compute. Without funding and compute, OpenAI is a bunch of smart folks with laptops talking AI safety in an office until the cashflow dries up. Without its exclusive relationship to Microsoft, there are other people with access to money and compute that would like a leg up in the enterprise AI space that Microsoft would be taking a major, even if (optimistically) temporary, step back from its leading position in by terminating its relationship with OpenAI.