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I love posting this study https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2707428 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle...

I love posting this study https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2707428 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle... Look at Figure 2C in particular. The hazard ratio of smoking is 1.41. The hazard ratio between "Low" (<25th percentile) and "Below Average" (25th-49th percentile) cardiovascular health is 1.95. In other words, it is by far better to be a smoker than in the lower 25% of non-exercisers.

Someone1234 3y ago
Which is fun, but of course both risk factors are addictive as smokers can be both. Could more be done on fitness (in particular, compared to smoking)? Sure, but our current strategies on exercise are a giant failure whereas on smoking they're a large success. The biggest problem with fitness today is that fitness outside of group sports is where fun goes to die. It is 2023, and we still have very few gaming-like integrations at the gym, fun isn't even on the radar for the fitness industry. They might throw a TV showing the news into the corner and some "achievements" on your Fitbit/Apple Watch. Ultimately, there is a lot we could do on fitness/exercise to make people WANT to do it, but we aren't. We just keep repeating the whole "exercise should feel like chore, and you should want to do it anyway" strategy over and over with new lipstick and being surprised when it fails. Where is fun? The industry is essentially innovation free.
- AlexErrant 3y ago
  I bought a cheap $50 used treadmill off of Craigslist, removed the arms and control panel, and stuck it in front of my standing desk. Used it daily for ~1hr for 2 years before it irreparably broke, so I bought another one on CL. I don't even run - I walk fast at ~3.4mph at a 10% incline. It's my "zone 2" training. And lemme tell you - when that hour is over, there is sweat all over the place. Even in winter. And the entire time I'm happily programming (or social-mediaing).
  - hombre_fatal 3y ago
    After getting used to a slow treadmill at my stand up desk, even watching TV and gaming on a couch feels like wasted opportunity. Most entertainment isn't so engrossing that it needs my undivided attention sitting on a couch. The best example lately has been Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom where a surprising amount of time is spent just running around. Might as well do it from a treadmill.
- hombre_fatal 3y ago
  The simpler way to get free fitness is when it's incidental. Americans don't even build their cities where they can walk anywhere, so exercise is seen as this thing you compartmentalize into a gym. You go there for exercise. Outside of it, you don't move at all. It's bleak and probably hard to notice until you've lived elsewhere. The ideal is probably when you don't have to think "uh oh, gotta get my exercise in" at all—you've already done it going about your day.
  - jodrellblank 3y ago
    Not Just Bikes video on this topic: "The Gym of Life" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPUlgSRn6e0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPUlgSRn6e0
  - jaredhallen 3y ago
    I know wood heat is unpopular on HN, but firewood is a great example of what you're suggesting. There's an old saying that it heats you four times: once when you cut it, once when you split it, once when you stack it, and once more when you burn it.
    - TacticalCoder 3y ago
      > I know wood heat is unpopular on HN Why would that be? That wood is going to turn into carbon dioxide when aging anyway. Sure open fireplace are now accepted to be bad for the health but it's not complicated to "upgrade" an open fireplace into a closed one (which moreover offer much better efficiency). Last winter I warmed the (relatively small) house with the closed fireplace only. Now, granted, it may not be an option for city dwellers living one on top of another: negative externalities of chimneys are a thing. But for anyone living in suburb or in rural, wood heat is great.
- TacticalCoder 3y ago
  > Which is fun, but of course both risk factors are addictive as smokers can be both. All the person around me who are doing sport do not smoke and all smokers around me do not do sport. It's worse than "smokers can be both", it's "smokers are usually both".
  - lazide 3y ago
    If you thought cardio was unpleasant before, doing it when a smoker is 10x worse.

Someone1234 3y ago

Which is fun, but of course both risk factors are addictive as smokers can be both. Could more be done on fitness (in particular, compared to smoking)? Sure, but our current strategies on exercise are a giant failure whereas on smoking they're a large success. The biggest problem with fitness today is that fitness outside of group sports is where fun goes to die. It is 2023, and we still have very few gaming-like integrations at the gym, fun isn't even on the radar for the fitness industry. They might throw a TV showing the news into the corner and some "achievements" on your Fitbit/Apple Watch. Ultimately, there is a lot we could do on fitness/exercise to make people WANT to do it, but we aren't. We just keep repeating the whole "exercise should feel like chore, and you should want to do it anyway" strategy over and over with new lipstick and being surprised when it fails. Where is fun? The industry is essentially innovation free.

AlexErrant 3y ago
I bought a cheap $50 used treadmill off of Craigslist, removed the arms and control panel, and stuck it in front of my standing desk. Used it daily for ~1hr for 2 years before it irreparably broke, so I bought another one on CL. I don't even run - I walk fast at ~3.4mph at a 10% incline. It's my "zone 2" training. And lemme tell you - when that hour is over, there is sweat all over the place. Even in winter. And the entire time I'm happily programming (or social-mediaing).
- hombre_fatal 3y ago
  After getting used to a slow treadmill at my stand up desk, even watching TV and gaming on a couch feels like wasted opportunity. Most entertainment isn't so engrossing that it needs my undivided attention sitting on a couch. The best example lately has been Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom where a surprising amount of time is spent just running around. Might as well do it from a treadmill.
hombre_fatal 3y ago
The simpler way to get free fitness is when it's incidental. Americans don't even build their cities where they can walk anywhere, so exercise is seen as this thing you compartmentalize into a gym. You go there for exercise. Outside of it, you don't move at all. It's bleak and probably hard to notice until you've lived elsewhere. The ideal is probably when you don't have to think "uh oh, gotta get my exercise in" at all—you've already done it going about your day.
- jodrellblank 3y ago
  Not Just Bikes video on this topic: "The Gym of Life" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPUlgSRn6e0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPUlgSRn6e0
- jaredhallen 3y ago
  I know wood heat is unpopular on HN, but firewood is a great example of what you're suggesting. There's an old saying that it heats you four times: once when you cut it, once when you split it, once when you stack it, and once more when you burn it.
  - TacticalCoder 3y ago
    > I know wood heat is unpopular on HN Why would that be? That wood is going to turn into carbon dioxide when aging anyway. Sure open fireplace are now accepted to be bad for the health but it's not complicated to "upgrade" an open fireplace into a closed one (which moreover offer much better efficiency). Last winter I warmed the (relatively small) house with the closed fireplace only. Now, granted, it may not be an option for city dwellers living one on top of another: negative externalities of chimneys are a thing. But for anyone living in suburb or in rural, wood heat is great.
TacticalCoder 3y ago
> Which is fun, but of course both risk factors are addictive as smokers can be both. All the person around me who are doing sport do not smoke and all smokers around me do not do sport. It's worse than "smokers can be both", it's "smokers are usually both".
- lazide 3y ago
  If you thought cardio was unpleasant before, doing it when a smoker is 10x worse.