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I think Altman hails from a kind of hustle culture that may not go great with AI safety: >I just saw Sam Altman speak at YCNYC and I was impressed. I have neve

by cma 3y ago

I think Altman hails from a kind of hustle culture that may not go great with AI safety: >I just saw Sam Altman speak at YCNYC and I was impressed. I have never actually met him or heard him speak before Monday, but one of his stories really stuck out and went something like this: > "We were trying to get a big client for weeks, and they said no and went with a competitor. The competitor already had a terms sheet from the company were we trying to sign up. It was real serious. > We were devastated, but we decided to fly down and sit in their lobby until they would meet with us. So they finally let us talk to them after most of the day. > We then had a few more meetings, and the company wanted to come visit our offices so they could make sure we were a 'real' company. At that time, we were only 5 guys. So we hired a bunch of our college friends to 'work' for us for the day so we could look larger than we actually were. It worked, and we got the contract." > I think the reason why PG respects Sam so much is he is charismatic, resourceful, and just overall seems like a genuine person. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3048944 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3048944 The crypto WorldCoin thing is probably a bigger example.

hef19898 3y ago
There was another AI start-up, one backed / supported by various conservative politians from Germany and Austria thatvdid the same thing, hiring people to look busy when customers (bad) and investors (a lot worse) showed up at the offices: Augustus Intelligence. At best, this is fake it till you make it. At worst, it is fraud. The tiny, tiny differce is whether that next investor shows up or not. Just ask FTX. I do not respect people resorting to that kind of thing.
Animats 3y ago
> We then had a few more meetings, and the company wanted to come visit our offices so they could make sure we were a 'real' company. At that time, we were only 5 guys. So we hired a bunch of our college friends to 'work' for us for the day so we could look larger than we actually were. It worked, and we got the contract." That strategy was tried with Barry Minkow, with "ZZZZ Best", the fake building maintenance company fraud.[1] He did prison time for that. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barry_Minkow https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barry_Minkow
- h2odragon 3y ago
  "Its not fraud when we do it"
  - gaganyaan 3y ago
    > While still in high school, Minkow founded ZZZZ Best (pronounced "Zee Best"), which appeared to be an immensely successful carpet-cleaning and restoration company. However, it was actually a front to attract investment for a massive Ponzi scheme. Apples and oranges.
  - CamperBob2 3y ago
    It's not fraud if Sam's company delivered. Did they?
    - foldr 3y ago
      I'm not sure if that's true. If they obtained a financial advantage (e.g. a contract) via deception, then that could well be fraud. I don't think it makes much difference if they eventually delivered on the contract or not.
      - CamperBob2 3y ago
        It'd probably come down to the legal definition of "deception." It's not Sam's fault if the customer saw a lot of people poring over screens and walking around with papers and assumed they were employees. But if he explicitly introduced them as employees, yeah, that'd be over the line. Similar to the debate over whether it was ethical of Reddit to seed themselves with sock puppets.
        foldr 3y ago
        It totally is his fault if those people were directed by him to pretend to be employees of the company – which he seems to admit. "I contracted some people specifically to pretend to be employees so that someone else would be deceived into thinking they were employees. But somehow it's still not my fault that this person was deceived." Seems like a weak defense.
celrod 3y ago
I have never seen him speak, but odd that an example of him faking it is supposed to make him seem genuine?

by cma 3y ago

hef19898 3y ago

There was another AI start-up, one backed / supported by various conservative politians from Germany and Austria thatvdid the same thing, hiring people to look busy when customers (bad) and investors (a lot worse) showed up at the offices: Augustus Intelligence. At best, this is fake it till you make it. At worst, it is fraud. The tiny, tiny differce is whether that next investor shows up or not. Just ask FTX. I do not respect people resorting to that kind of thing.

Animats 3y ago

> We then had a few more meetings, and the company wanted to come visit our offices so they could make sure we were a 'real' company. At that time, we were only 5 guys. So we hired a bunch of our college friends to 'work' for us for the day so we could look larger than we actually were. It worked, and we got the contract." That strategy was tried with Barry Minkow, with "ZZZZ Best", the fake building maintenance company fraud.[1] He did prison time for that. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barry_Minkow https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barry_Minkow

h2odragon 3y ago
"Its not fraud when we do it"
- gaganyaan 3y ago
  > While still in high school, Minkow founded ZZZZ Best (pronounced "Zee Best"), which appeared to be an immensely successful carpet-cleaning and restoration company. However, it was actually a front to attract investment for a massive Ponzi scheme. Apples and oranges.
- CamperBob2 3y ago
  It's not fraud if Sam's company delivered. Did they?
  - foldr 3y ago
    I'm not sure if that's true. If they obtained a financial advantage (e.g. a contract) via deception, then that could well be fraud. I don't think it makes much difference if they eventually delivered on the contract or not.
    - CamperBob2 3y ago
      It'd probably come down to the legal definition of "deception." It's not Sam's fault if the customer saw a lot of people poring over screens and walking around with papers and assumed they were employees. But if he explicitly introduced them as employees, yeah, that'd be over the line. Similar to the debate over whether it was ethical of Reddit to seed themselves with sock puppets.
      - foldr 3y ago
        It totally is his fault if those people were directed by him to pretend to be employees of the company – which he seems to admit. "I contracted some people specifically to pretend to be employees so that someone else would be deceived into thinking they were employees. But somehow it's still not my fault that this person was deceived." Seems like a weak defense.

celrod 3y ago

I have never seen him speak, but odd that an example of him faking it is supposed to make him seem genuine?