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Nobody wants to raise prices but everybody wants more money. In the past week, I've seen under the line mandatory fees from a pet grooming service ($5.99 requir

Nobody wants to raise prices but everybody wants more money. In the past week, I've seen under the line mandatory fees from a pet grooming service ($5.99 required "materials fee"), a large apartment operator ("technology package fee" to have mandatory access to the resident portal), and a bookstore ($2 order handling charge). Hiding the actual cost with sneaky fees is getting out of hand and I have zero sympathy for "oh the poor merchants" or "showing the proper price is too hard." They made the decision to impose the fees, they can make the decision to put them in the price where they belong.

ed_elliott_asc 3y ago
I went for dinner tonight and for some reason they decided to charge an extra pot of gravy at £1 when it always used to be free - this is extremely irritating.
- jrockway 3y ago
  This is not a junk fee. You bought a pot of gravy for £1. Being nickeled and dimed [1] never feels good, but it's somewhat fair. Why should you pay to check luggage if you're not checking luggage? Why should you pay for two pots of gravy if you only want to eat one? [1] I realize this expression probably doesn't translate well to speakers of English that use the Pound as their currency. I apologize.
  - amatecha 3y ago
    Right, a junk fee in this case would be something more like "dishes/utensils cleaning fee" or something else inherent to the business that is for some reason not included in the price presented to the customer.
  - ensignavenger 3y ago
    If the restraunt previosly did not charge for an extra pot of gravy, but now are, it would be common courtesy to their loyal repeat customers to make certain they are aware of the change when they decide to make it. How to best do that may not be straight forward, though.
    - jrockway 3y ago
      Sure, but this is a "how do we hide inflation and not piss off customers by raising prices by 30%" thing. One way is, no more free gravy for regulars.
bigiain 3y ago
> "showing the proper price is too hard." And yet somehow it's always possible to have the proper price ready when billing your card. Here (Australia) if a manufacturer or dealership advertises a car at a price, they have to sell the car for that price and no more if someone shows up at your showroom. In practice this does make life complicated, I worked on Toyota's website a decade or so back, and there was a quite complex attempt to geo locate users so we could know which state they were in, because each state has different registration/insurance/on-road-costs, so depending where you were, we had to show a different final price. (It was usually only a few hundred dollars difference, and we also went out of our way to ensure we listed how much was state government fees and how much was the dealership pricing.) (There was an "incident" before my time there, where the web agency fucked up and advertised RAV4s for way below the real price, and half a dozen people worked it out and showed up at dealerships with printouts of the web advertised price and got a RAV4 for a _lot_ below retail price. Toyota ended up making the web agency pay to difference, which was well into 6 figures. But they were getting billed close to 7 figures a month for the website, so...)
- SOLAR_FIELDS 3y ago
  I would love such legislation to exist in the States. Netherlands has similar legislation. For a long time it’s why I used airbnb.com.au to search for listings. It would also neatly solve the extremely annoying problem of tax not being included in the total listing. I don’t care if it’s “hard” for sellers. There are already existing softwares like TaxJar that help with this. It should be a cost of doing business
johnfn 3y ago
Man, who disagrees with this? I'm not even surprised any more when I take an Uber and I find that there are 7 or 8 surprise fees tacked onto my bill - and I'm not even exaggerating when I say 7 or 8. Same thing when my UberEats bill doubles from the list price, which is a large part of the reason why I try not to use it any more. This should be made illegal; I can't understand why it hasn't been already.
- eweise 3y ago
  When I get a fee on my credit card I disagree with, I contest it. So far every charge has been reversed.
  - SOLAR_FIELDS 3y ago
    Doing this risks you being banned by whatever service imposes the fee. Not such a big deal when it’s NoName Vendor, but suddenly being banned from using American Airlines is probably a huge deal for most people
lostlogin 3y ago
Would you apply this to tipping? Or sales tax? I would.
wincy 3y ago
I used to get burgers from a nice joint down the way during the pandemic. They added a 15% fee in, and it’s unavoidable. I called them up and said I wouldn’t be ordering from them anymore as its deceptive cost. Just raise your damned prices! Was just traveling and the servers kept conveniently forgetting to mention we’d already been assessed an 18% gratuity. It just makes me suspicious of the waitstaff.
- jghn 3y ago
  I don't mind, even prefer, autograts. As long as they're very clear what's happening. In fact I'll usually tack on a bit extra as long as there's a line to do so. But man, too many places don't draw enough attention to it, particularly servers. And as you say, that latter part is suspicious. Recently we were at an expensive restaurant nearby, when paying I thought it seemed more $$ than I expected but whatever. Double checked the bill when I got home and sure enough I had tipped 25% on top of their 20% autograt. Their tip pool got an extra $100. It was on the bill, but I missed it. It's not anywhere on their menu, and the server did not mention it at all. That's garbage. As for all the other fees, I get the point and even sorta agree with them. But again, be up front that they'll be applied and whether or not it should be considered part of the gratuity.
  - jkaplowitz 3y ago
    Yeah, doing that stealthily ought to be illegal - and in some places it is. In NYC, mandatory or automatic service charges have to be conspicuously disclosed to consumers before food is ordered, by law. Conspicuously is interpreted accurately enough that merely hiding it on the back of the menu isn’t enough, let alone not disclosing it until the bill at the end of the meal. And most other restaurant-imposed surcharges on top of listed food and beverage prices, which aren’t bona fide service charges, are categorically forbidden. A mandatory blanket extra percentage that isn’t a bona fide charge for some service, like handling a large party or splitting a bill, is likely illegal in NYC even when labeled as a service charge, although not as rare as it should be. (Taxes can still be added on separately.) Sadly for the rest of the state and country, these requirements are just local rules and regulations, not state or federal. But some other places do have similar laws.
davchana 3y ago
even thr USPS Government website charges handling fees on $100, and more fees on $100+ orders. I love USPS, but simply add these to stamp prices.
- gnopgnip 3y ago
  There are no fees for shipping or handling or sales tax buying $100+ in stamps from usps.com Also no fees buying a single book of stamps for $13. Are you sure you are looking at the real government website?
  - RandallBrown 3y ago
    There are extra fees when buying things that aren't stamps. If USPS.gov isn't the right website, I'd like to know what is.
    - brewdad 3y ago
      The postal service site is a .com, so I guess you are on the wrong site.
      - grepfru_it 3y ago
        USPS.gov == usps.com
        davchana 3y ago
        https://store.usps.com/store/product/buy-stamps/us-flag-2023-stamps-S_122704#moreinfofooter https://store.usps.com/store/product/buy-stamps/us-flag-2023... Check the Shipping Info on any of the Stamp Description page in store. It says extra dollars for shipping & handling.
      - RandallBrown 3y ago
        Ah, I typed in USPS.gov and it redirects to .com

ed_elliott_asc 3y ago

I went for dinner tonight and for some reason they decided to charge an extra pot of gravy at £1 when it always used to be free - this is extremely irritating.

jrockway 3y ago
This is not a junk fee. You bought a pot of gravy for £1. Being nickeled and dimed [1] never feels good, but it's somewhat fair. Why should you pay to check luggage if you're not checking luggage? Why should you pay for two pots of gravy if you only want to eat one? [1] I realize this expression probably doesn't translate well to speakers of English that use the Pound as their currency. I apologize.
- amatecha 3y ago
  Right, a junk fee in this case would be something more like "dishes/utensils cleaning fee" or something else inherent to the business that is for some reason not included in the price presented to the customer.
- ensignavenger 3y ago
  If the restraunt previosly did not charge for an extra pot of gravy, but now are, it would be common courtesy to their loyal repeat customers to make certain they are aware of the change when they decide to make it. How to best do that may not be straight forward, though.
  - jrockway 3y ago
    Sure, but this is a "how do we hide inflation and not piss off customers by raising prices by 30%" thing. One way is, no more free gravy for regulars.

bigiain 3y ago

> "showing the proper price is too hard." And yet somehow it's always possible to have the proper price ready when billing your card. Here (Australia) if a manufacturer or dealership advertises a car at a price, they have to sell the car for that price and no more if someone shows up at your showroom. In practice this does make life complicated, I worked on Toyota's website a decade or so back, and there was a quite complex attempt to geo locate users so we could know which state they were in, because each state has different registration/insurance/on-road-costs, so depending where you were, we had to show a different final price. (It was usually only a few hundred dollars difference, and we also went out of our way to ensure we listed how much was state government fees and how much was the dealership pricing.) (There was an "incident" before my time there, where the web agency fucked up and advertised RAV4s for way below the real price, and half a dozen people worked it out and showed up at dealerships with printouts of the web advertised price and got a RAV4 for a _lot_ below retail price. Toyota ended up making the web agency pay to difference, which was well into 6 figures. But they were getting billed close to 7 figures a month for the website, so...)

SOLAR_FIELDS 3y ago
I would love such legislation to exist in the States. Netherlands has similar legislation. For a long time it’s why I used airbnb.com.au to search for listings. It would also neatly solve the extremely annoying problem of tax not being included in the total listing. I don’t care if it’s “hard” for sellers. There are already existing softwares like TaxJar that help with this. It should be a cost of doing business

johnfn 3y ago

Man, who disagrees with this? I'm not even surprised any more when I take an Uber and I find that there are 7 or 8 surprise fees tacked onto my bill - and I'm not even exaggerating when I say 7 or 8. Same thing when my UberEats bill doubles from the list price, which is a large part of the reason why I try not to use it any more. This should be made illegal; I can't understand why it hasn't been already.

eweise 3y ago
When I get a fee on my credit card I disagree with, I contest it. So far every charge has been reversed.
- SOLAR_FIELDS 3y ago
  Doing this risks you being banned by whatever service imposes the fee. Not such a big deal when it’s NoName Vendor, but suddenly being banned from using American Airlines is probably a huge deal for most people

lostlogin 3y ago

Would you apply this to tipping? Or sales tax? I would.

wincy 3y ago

I used to get burgers from a nice joint down the way during the pandemic. They added a 15% fee in, and it’s unavoidable. I called them up and said I wouldn’t be ordering from them anymore as its deceptive cost. Just raise your damned prices! Was just traveling and the servers kept conveniently forgetting to mention we’d already been assessed an 18% gratuity. It just makes me suspicious of the waitstaff.

jghn 3y ago
I don't mind, even prefer, autograts. As long as they're very clear what's happening. In fact I'll usually tack on a bit extra as long as there's a line to do so. But man, too many places don't draw enough attention to it, particularly servers. And as you say, that latter part is suspicious. Recently we were at an expensive restaurant nearby, when paying I thought it seemed more $$ than I expected but whatever. Double checked the bill when I got home and sure enough I had tipped 25% on top of their 20% autograt. Their tip pool got an extra $100. It was on the bill, but I missed it. It's not anywhere on their menu, and the server did not mention it at all. That's garbage. As for all the other fees, I get the point and even sorta agree with them. But again, be up front that they'll be applied and whether or not it should be considered part of the gratuity.
- jkaplowitz 3y ago
  Yeah, doing that stealthily ought to be illegal - and in some places it is. In NYC, mandatory or automatic service charges have to be conspicuously disclosed to consumers before food is ordered, by law. Conspicuously is interpreted accurately enough that merely hiding it on the back of the menu isn’t enough, let alone not disclosing it until the bill at the end of the meal. And most other restaurant-imposed surcharges on top of listed food and beverage prices, which aren’t bona fide service charges, are categorically forbidden. A mandatory blanket extra percentage that isn’t a bona fide charge for some service, like handling a large party or splitting a bill, is likely illegal in NYC even when labeled as a service charge, although not as rare as it should be. (Taxes can still be added on separately.) Sadly for the rest of the state and country, these requirements are just local rules and regulations, not state or federal. But some other places do have similar laws.

davchana 3y ago

even thr USPS Government website charges handling fees on $100, and more fees on $100+ orders. I love USPS, but simply add these to stamp prices.

gnopgnip 3y ago
There are no fees for shipping or handling or sales tax buying $100+ in stamps from usps.com Also no fees buying a single book of stamps for $13. Are you sure you are looking at the real government website?
- RandallBrown 3y ago
  There are extra fees when buying things that aren't stamps. If USPS.gov isn't the right website, I'd like to know what is.
  - brewdad 3y ago
    The postal service site is a .com, so I guess you are on the wrong site.
    - grepfru_it 3y ago
      USPS.gov == usps.com
      - davchana 3y ago
        https://store.usps.com/store/product/buy-stamps/us-flag-2023-stamps-S_122704#moreinfofooter https://store.usps.com/store/product/buy-stamps/us-flag-2023... Check the Shipping Info on any of the Stamp Description page in store. It says extra dollars for shipping & handling.
    - RandallBrown 3y ago
      Ah, I typed in USPS.gov and it redirects to .com