10 ms·

Not including sales tax kind of makes sense, because it varies so much state to state (and often within the state). This allows companies to advertise one price

Not including sales tax kind of makes sense, because it varies so much state to state (and often within the state). This allows companies to advertise one price nationwide.

wepple 3y ago
Yeah, what the above says I also don’t hate the side effect that it somewhat points out to you that it’s the govt taking a cut It sure is nice in most of the rest of the developed world to buy a product or service and immediately know how many dollars have to go from me to them because it’s the one price, though.
- noodlesUK 3y ago
  > I also don’t hate the side effect that it somewhat points out to you that it’s the govt taking a cut In every place I have been to, the receipt or invoice has a line item saying how much tax was payable on the transaction. Not least so that business customers can reclaim VAT in countries that have VAT. Different items also often have different tax rates, which is especially noticeable at somewhere like a supermarket where you might buy food, other goods, and alcohol in one transaction.
  - wepple 3y ago
    Sure, of course it does. How often do you look at it, and think through what portion is actually going to the business? Tax-not-included prices do that automatically.
noodlesUK 3y ago
Surely your inventory/POS systems need to know what price/tax rates to charge anyway. I understand your point in the context of an ad in a magazine offering a good at a particular price, but I don't think it makes sense at all in the context of a store with tickets on items that don't actually correspond to the price at the till.
kshacker 3y ago
When was the last time we found same hotel prices across states or counties? Oh it is 300$ plus tax in new York and it is 300 inclusive in Philly but ... I am not going to Philly. McDonald's maybe but not a hotel since so much depends on the location and amenities.
- iteria 3y ago
  Some cities range across counties. Some cities have taxes that the county itself doesn't, so literally crossing the street into the unincorporated part of town can save you on sales tax. Sometimes sales tax is suspended based on who you are. Sometimes sales tax is suspended on what time of year it is. Sales tax is complicated. I get why companies would rather outsource that to the register to look up at the end.
  - yencabulator 3y ago
    Meanwhile, just about every other place except USA seem to function just fine with taxes included in prices.
    - shiroiuma 3y ago
      It's usually because they don't allow localities to add sales taxes. Here in Japan, sales tax is 10%, everywhere (except for groceries, which is 8%). You don't have to worry about an extra 0.5% from some municipality; it's the same everywhere. The US gives way too much control to local governments.
jopsen 3y ago
> This allows companies to advertise one price nationwide. I think most stores prints their pricing labels locally. Maybe, there could be a case for national TV to be exempt. But for prices listed in a store, on a menu card, I don't see any excuse.
JumpCrisscross 3y ago
It can also vary street to street, due to intersecting county and municipal lines, and based on time, e.g. tax brackets that change depending on sales volume or special taxes on certain items.
- brewdad 3y ago
  Still, every one of those stores knows exactly, down to the penny, what to charge me when I checkout. This isn't rocket science. Stores just won't do it unless forced to because if I put taxes in my prices, the store down the street won't and will "look" cheaper.
  - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
    > every one of those stores knows exactly, down to the penny, what to charge me when I checkout The resounding misunderstanding is their customers don’t care. I didn’t notice all-inclusive prices until a German friend pointed it out to me. I grew up, in part, in Europe! Also, no, they may not. Not before you buy. Some counties in America vary their taxes marginally. That means your tax rate on some product today could be different from tomorrow, based on that store’s sales.
shortcake27 3y ago
Does having different levels of tax between states, and between municipalities within those states, actually benefit the public? I just don’t see how this is better than literally every other country in the world which sets sales tax at the federal level. And please don’t hit me with ridiculous hypotheticals “if it’s set at the federal level, the government could just increase the tax to 7000 billion trillion percent to steal everyone’s money”.
- krallja 3y ago
  If the federal government set the tax, the states and cities wouldn’t get any of it.
  - shortcake27 3y ago
    So using your logic, in almost every other country in the world where sales tax is set at the federal level, states/counties/equivilant/cities don’t get tax money. Do you genuinely believe this, have you done any research, and are you happy to stick with this argument?
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
- WirelessGigabit 3y ago
  It's because the feds actually don't have any sales tax. Sales tax is set at State level (unless you live in Alaska, Delaware, Montana, New Hampshire or Oregon). Then the County you live in can levy a sales tax. This is to serve the people who live in unincorporated places. Lastly, Cities levy a sales tax. So yea, it really isn't that simple in the USA. Hell, how many countries do you know that have different income taxes based on where they live?
  - rft 3y ago
    > So yea, it really isn't that simple in the USA. German VAT is also not simple. Before we had a temporary (so another layer of madness) law change, you either paid 19% VAT or 7% VAT, depending on whether you ordered your food to go or sat down at a restaurant. So the same item, for the same person would be taxed at a different rate depending on whether that person walks out with the food or carries it to a table. The restaurants simply advertise a single price and eat the difference [1]. Or to be more precise: the different tax values are priced into the single price, potentially accounting for the rough split between dine-in/takeout orders. Despite all of this madness, we see a single price at the menu, we can pay exactly that price, and for takeout it actually is not uncommon to actually pay exactly that price. No sales tax, mandatory surcharges or gratuity, just a single, final price. As for differences in the income needs of the counties/municipalities: this is handled with taxes on the profit of companies based in that area [2]. So the consumer never sees the differences in taxes, accounting is pushed to companies. If McD wants to advertise a fixed price nationwide, their franchisees need to eat the difference. I get that in the US the states are more like countries in the EU, but we still manage to have the same VAT in all of Germany while apparently US sales tax can vary on the city level. [1] there are exceptions, e.g. explicit to-go foods are advertised as such [2] there are more ways for this, but this is, IMO, the most similar way to the local sales tax in the US
miki123211 3y ago
You could set the same price, and then your actual revenue would vary state-to-state. European companies sometimes have a "No VAT" promotion, which of course doesn't actually mean "No VAT", merely that prices are reduced by what VAT usually is.

Not including sales tax kind of makes sense, because it varies so much state to state (and often within the state). This allows companies to advertise one price nationwide.

wepple 3y ago

Yeah, what the above says I also don’t hate the side effect that it somewhat points out to you that it’s the govt taking a cut It sure is nice in most of the rest of the developed world to buy a product or service and immediately know how many dollars have to go from me to them because it’s the one price, though.

noodlesUK 3y ago
> I also don’t hate the side effect that it somewhat points out to you that it’s the govt taking a cut In every place I have been to, the receipt or invoice has a line item saying how much tax was payable on the transaction. Not least so that business customers can reclaim VAT in countries that have VAT. Different items also often have different tax rates, which is especially noticeable at somewhere like a supermarket where you might buy food, other goods, and alcohol in one transaction.
- wepple 3y ago
  Sure, of course it does. How often do you look at it, and think through what portion is actually going to the business? Tax-not-included prices do that automatically.

noodlesUK 3y ago

Surely your inventory/POS systems need to know what price/tax rates to charge anyway. I understand your point in the context of an ad in a magazine offering a good at a particular price, but I don't think it makes sense at all in the context of a store with tickets on items that don't actually correspond to the price at the till.

kshacker 3y ago

When was the last time we found same hotel prices across states or counties? Oh it is 300$ plus tax in new York and it is 300 inclusive in Philly but ... I am not going to Philly. McDonald's maybe but not a hotel since so much depends on the location and amenities.

iteria 3y ago
Some cities range across counties. Some cities have taxes that the county itself doesn't, so literally crossing the street into the unincorporated part of town can save you on sales tax. Sometimes sales tax is suspended based on who you are. Sometimes sales tax is suspended on what time of year it is. Sales tax is complicated. I get why companies would rather outsource that to the register to look up at the end.
- yencabulator 3y ago
  Meanwhile, just about every other place except USA seem to function just fine with taxes included in prices.
  - shiroiuma 3y ago
    It's usually because they don't allow localities to add sales taxes. Here in Japan, sales tax is 10%, everywhere (except for groceries, which is 8%). You don't have to worry about an extra 0.5% from some municipality; it's the same everywhere. The US gives way too much control to local governments.

jopsen 3y ago

> This allows companies to advertise one price nationwide. I think most stores prints their pricing labels locally. Maybe, there could be a case for national TV to be exempt. But for prices listed in a store, on a menu card, I don't see any excuse.

JumpCrisscross 3y ago

It can also vary street to street, due to intersecting county and municipal lines, and based on time, e.g. tax brackets that change depending on sales volume or special taxes on certain items.

brewdad 3y ago
Still, every one of those stores knows exactly, down to the penny, what to charge me when I checkout. This isn't rocket science. Stores just won't do it unless forced to because if I put taxes in my prices, the store down the street won't and will "look" cheaper.
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago
  > every one of those stores knows exactly, down to the penny, what to charge me when I checkout The resounding misunderstanding is their customers don’t care. I didn’t notice all-inclusive prices until a German friend pointed it out to me. I grew up, in part, in Europe! Also, no, they may not. Not before you buy. Some counties in America vary their taxes marginally. That means your tax rate on some product today could be different from tomorrow, based on that store’s sales.

shortcake27 3y ago

Does having different levels of tax between states, and between municipalities within those states, actually benefit the public? I just don’t see how this is better than literally every other country in the world which sets sales tax at the federal level. And please don’t hit me with ridiculous hypotheticals “if it’s set at the federal level, the government could just increase the tax to 7000 billion trillion percent to steal everyone’s money”.

krallja 3y ago
If the federal government set the tax, the states and cities wouldn’t get any of it.
- shortcake27 3y ago
  So using your logic, in almost every other country in the world where sales tax is set at the federal level, states/counties/equivilant/cities don’t get tax money. Do you genuinely believe this, have you done any research, and are you happy to stick with this argument?
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
WirelessGigabit 3y ago
It's because the feds actually don't have any sales tax. Sales tax is set at State level (unless you live in Alaska, Delaware, Montana, New Hampshire or Oregon). Then the County you live in can levy a sales tax. This is to serve the people who live in unincorporated places. Lastly, Cities levy a sales tax. So yea, it really isn't that simple in the USA. Hell, how many countries do you know that have different income taxes based on where they live?
- rft 3y ago
  > So yea, it really isn't that simple in the USA. German VAT is also not simple. Before we had a temporary (so another layer of madness) law change, you either paid 19% VAT or 7% VAT, depending on whether you ordered your food to go or sat down at a restaurant. So the same item, for the same person would be taxed at a different rate depending on whether that person walks out with the food or carries it to a table. The restaurants simply advertise a single price and eat the difference [1]. Or to be more precise: the different tax values are priced into the single price, potentially accounting for the rough split between dine-in/takeout orders. Despite all of this madness, we see a single price at the menu, we can pay exactly that price, and for takeout it actually is not uncommon to actually pay exactly that price. No sales tax, mandatory surcharges or gratuity, just a single, final price. As for differences in the income needs of the counties/municipalities: this is handled with taxes on the profit of companies based in that area [2]. So the consumer never sees the differences in taxes, accounting is pushed to companies. If McD wants to advertise a fixed price nationwide, their franchisees need to eat the difference. I get that in the US the states are more like countries in the EU, but we still manage to have the same VAT in all of Germany while apparently US sales tax can vary on the city level. [1] there are exceptions, e.g. explicit to-go foods are advertised as such [2] there are more ways for this, but this is, IMO, the most similar way to the local sales tax in the US

miki123211 3y ago

You could set the same price, and then your actual revenue would vary state-to-state. European companies sometimes have a "No VAT" promotion, which of course doesn't actually mean "No VAT", merely that prices are reduced by what VAT usually is.