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This comment is not elitist, it is an unfortunate truth. Moreover, this happened only quite recently. What you are not supposed to say out loud is the fact that
by cubefox 3y ago
This comment is not elitist, it is an unfortunate truth. Moreover, this happened only quite recently. What you are not supposed to say out loud is the fact that the majority of these "low education bracket people" who a behaving badly in public pools are young Muslim men who recently immigrated as refugees.
- jdthedisciple 3y ago[flagged]
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- earthnail 3y agoI think the parent poster clearly had some passive aggressiveness in their tone - “what you’re not supposed to say out loud” - but I also think it’s wrong to jump to a conclusion that they wanted to group these people with all Muslims in the world. As to the question on how one knows that they are Muslims: it is very apparent. The group of people parent poster describes take up a significant amount of attention. They also often come in larger groups to public spaces, making it extremely intimidating to approach them if you’d like to express some differences. I think it’s a huge mistake to not mention problematic differences under the pretense of political correctness. Berlin certainly tends to do that, and when problems grow so large that they can no longer be ignored, you will have already alienated people who did complain before by not having listened to them before. This is how extreme right wing parties get their voters.
- sundvor 3y agoYup, 100%. You're not allowed to call a spade a spade anymore. Rightspeak and all that. Everything is always awesome, and don't you dare go against the system. I wish we could decouple this wokeness/madness from the political spectrum, ie have centrist parties with more traditional values without going to / having to go to the extremes. Having traditional values (and I'd perhaps call not being a pest one such traditional value) is not an extreme right thing, believe it or not.
- jdthedisciple 3y agoI am in agreement when it comes to lax immigration policies. Which spade are you not allowed to call a spade anymore? That "dem muzzlems" are a danger to society?
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- jdthedisciple 3y agoI am the last person to submit to political correctness. However I ask you like I asked parent, why is their being Muslim more significant than their socio-economic status? Again, I am not a fan of these hyper lax immigration policies either, but I know the difference between being critical of that and a pure hate for Muslims.
- civilitty 3y agoTheir being Muslim is more significant than their socio-economic status by the rules of adjective coordination of the English language. Their religion/culture is more of a defining feature of their identity than how much wealth they have. It’s only recently that following this most basic rule has become politically incorrect. The hyper lax immigration policies are only relevant in so far as they’ve changed the cultural makeup of the people the OP interacts with at their local pools.
- jdthedisciple 3y ago[flagged]
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- selimthegrim 3y ago[flagged]
- cubefox 3y agoIt is obvious that they come from various Muslim countries and that they are male. But you will hardly find any women from those countries in those pools. Again, the best explanation is that they are indeed Muslim. I strongly object to your attributing hatred to me. It is not hatred to point out obvious problems. It is however intolerable to try to shame people as "hateful" for pointing out things you deem contrary to your worldview.
- jdthedisciple 3y agoI am not against pointing out obvious problems at all. However, it seems more important to you to point out their being Muslim than anything else that could be and more likely is a common factor among them. This is how the genuinely critical are easily separable from the bigoted/hateful. And I say this as someone most staunchly opposed to the whole wokeness crowd.
- cubefox 3y agoSo, what is your alternative hypothesis? What other thing do they have in common? I can think of one thing, but you would consider that probably even more "bigoted/hateful". Again, these terms (just like "racist") are defamatory accusations. They shouldn't be used lightly.
- jdthedisciple 3y agoHow about being of low socio-economic and educational status? In my city, the asocials lingering around the stations are mostly native Westerners and not Muslims. Same reason applies.
- cubefox 3y agoLow socio-economic and educational status people have existed before in similar or higher numbers, yet the violent people in public baths are mostly young Muslim men. > In my city, the asocials lingering around the stations are mostly native Westerners and not Muslims. Are there even a significant number of Muslim refugees in your country? Otherwise it's hardly possible to make a comparison.
- mjhay 3y agoProbably the second one. HN can be astonishingly bigoted.
- danielbln 3y agoThis is not at all a recent phenomenon. A couple of decades ago, when going to open air baths in Berlin after school, the same things could be observed. Same clientele as well though, low class, low education, patriarchal and religious young men, predominantly.
- cbmuser 3y agoI have been living in Berlin for more than four decades and, yes, it’s a recent problem.
- danielbln 3y agoThen maybe you didn't visit public baths as a youth, because I don't know what to tell you, it's been an issue as long as I can remember (born here, close to four decades ago).
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- vbeeaz 3y ago[flagged]