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Ok, any advice for someone trying/considering the reverse?? Am an average programmer a tad tired of programming and foraying into business by writing functional

by aangjie 15y ago

Ok, any advice for someone trying/considering the reverse?? Am an average programmer a tad tired of programming and foraying into business by writing functional spec, Business Justifications etc.... What are recommended readings i must do?

mickeyp 15y ago
Well, you covered quite a few professions or career paths in your examples. The easiest way to move into business is to realise that you will need to understand the business. This is not some nebulous Zen crap I'm pulling here, but a fact. If all you've ever done is work for a blue chip software company then it's likely that your only "experience" with "users" are those you sell your software or services to: in most businesses your users are the ones you write internal software for. Moving into it can be as simple as asking for training and a transfer to another department or business area (if you work in big corp) or simply involving yourself in the day-to-day workings of your users. If you show a genuine interest in learning how they do their work you can use your existing IT skills and your honed, technical mind to making their lives easier. You'll be surprised by just how utterly inefficient most things are. Fixing these deficiencies range from yanking data from crufty Excel spreadsheets on network drives into a proper database or munging crap data or other sort of automation tasks. The only real way to learn a business, aside from domain areas like finance where you're as likely to receive in-house training, is to sit next to them and help them do their jobs. (Sneaky Ninja edit: Your line manager may hate that you're leaving as he's losing a developer, but the business may well end up loving you even more. You're no longer a cost centre but you're actually improving the business.)
deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
orky56 15y ago
The business side typically boils down to product management, marketing, or business development. All 3 areas involve making relationships and getting things done (closing deals and/or shipping). It's easier and probably quicker to learn while doing. Not sure how to price? Price at different points and go with what yields the most profit. Being scientific and prioritizing the customer experience goes pretty far.
- aangjie 15y ago
  The pricing comment strikes home. That's the major fight i had at the last startup i worked for, but ultimately gave up to the founder's stubbornness to stick to the price. Guess Product Management can be related to what am doing now(starting with verbal requirements gathered over calls to getting to a deliverable product). I guess for the next role change, i should look for opportunities in marketing and BD. Thanks for that simplification
  - orky56 15y ago
    That stubbornness is what gives business founders a bad rap. If you want to continue with programming and stay close to the product, product management would be a natural transition. For marketing and BD, you'll probably have to start from scratch a little more. When I look at job reqs (so take with a grain of salt), they actually actively look for people with consulting experience, probably for the client interaction.
coopr 15y ago
When you a programmer you can work for a while, finish your code, have it pass tests, and then you are done - with 100% confidence that your work resulted in the outcome you sought (code that works). When you are product/marketing/sales person, you typically work for a while, aren't sure if what you are doing is correct or optimal, maybe find out later it did or didn't work, and then you have to do it again and again and again. So, to make the transition, you have to get comfortable with the uncertainty inherent in business activities. To put it another way: You'll "fail" far more frequently in business than in programming, and the causes of your failure will be far less obvious.
aspir 15y ago
The best business guys I know consistently have one core feature: they love people. I'm not talking about extroversion v. introversion. I'm referring to a passion for and respect of people that shines over their love of technology (it's still strong -- love of people and tech aren't mutually exclusive). Figuring out what customers want, how to reach them, making a good product, etc. It's all rooted in a deep respect for their users, potential users, or even people they've met. This absolutely extends into technical writing. Have you ever read horrible specs? :) They're time wasters, frustrating, and almost insulting. If you care about your audience, and I mean really care, you'll produce damn good specs.
tferris 15y ago
Much easier to move from a tech guy to a business guy. Waht you mentioned isn't real business (functional specs, business specs), rather work for office drone and a must. Business guy means taking risk, being persistant, able to sell and to network. That's it.
- spiredigital 15y ago
  > Business guy means taking risk, being persistant, able to sell and to network. That's it. Taking risk doesn't make you a good at business. In fact, quite the opposite. Great businessmen are experts at limiting their risk and identifying and acting on high risk-to-reward opportunities. One of the reasons so many businesses fail is the misguided notion that you "must" take a lot of risk to start a business. So people take out a lot of debt / make risky decisions because they believe it's just part of the whole process. I think the best way to start a business and excel is to limit your risk and bootstrap as much as possible. However, I do agree with you on the other three... ;-)
  - tferris 15y ago
    I agree with you about limiting risk. But I believe that 'risk' is a highly relative term. Spending three months on a new idea and investing lets say 3,000 USD on this idea is ... 1. for the average employed office drone a huge risk (at least that's how he feels about it=>different value system) 2. for a first time entrepreneur a risk (and objectively higher than for 1 because this guy doesn't have any incom) 3. for a experienced entrepreneur its daily business and no risk at all The principle is just don't go all in but keep on doing and risking.

by aangjie 15y ago

mickeyp 15y ago

Well, you covered quite a few professions or career paths in your examples. The easiest way to move into business is to realise that you will need to understand the business. This is not some nebulous Zen crap I'm pulling here, but a fact. If all you've ever done is work for a blue chip software company then it's likely that your only "experience" with "users" are those you sell your software or services to: in most businesses your users are the ones you write internal software for. Moving into it can be as simple as asking for training and a transfer to another department or business area (if you work in big corp) or simply involving yourself in the day-to-day workings of your users. If you show a genuine interest in learning how they do their work you can use your existing IT skills and your honed, technical mind to making their lives easier. You'll be surprised by just how utterly inefficient most things are. Fixing these deficiencies range from yanking data from crufty Excel spreadsheets on network drives into a proper database or munging crap data or other sort of automation tasks. The only real way to learn a business, aside from domain areas like finance where you're as likely to receive in-house training, is to sit next to them and help them do their jobs. (Sneaky Ninja edit: Your line manager may hate that you're leaving as he's losing a developer, but the business may well end up loving you even more. You're no longer a cost centre but you're actually improving the business.)

deleted 15y ago

[deleted]

orky56 15y ago

The business side typically boils down to product management, marketing, or business development. All 3 areas involve making relationships and getting things done (closing deals and/or shipping). It's easier and probably quicker to learn while doing. Not sure how to price? Price at different points and go with what yields the most profit. Being scientific and prioritizing the customer experience goes pretty far.

aangjie 15y ago
The pricing comment strikes home. That's the major fight i had at the last startup i worked for, but ultimately gave up to the founder's stubbornness to stick to the price. Guess Product Management can be related to what am doing now(starting with verbal requirements gathered over calls to getting to a deliverable product). I guess for the next role change, i should look for opportunities in marketing and BD. Thanks for that simplification
- orky56 15y ago
  That stubbornness is what gives business founders a bad rap. If you want to continue with programming and stay close to the product, product management would be a natural transition. For marketing and BD, you'll probably have to start from scratch a little more. When I look at job reqs (so take with a grain of salt), they actually actively look for people with consulting experience, probably for the client interaction.

coopr 15y ago

When you a programmer you can work for a while, finish your code, have it pass tests, and then you are done - with 100% confidence that your work resulted in the outcome you sought (code that works). When you are product/marketing/sales person, you typically work for a while, aren't sure if what you are doing is correct or optimal, maybe find out later it did or didn't work, and then you have to do it again and again and again. So, to make the transition, you have to get comfortable with the uncertainty inherent in business activities. To put it another way: You'll "fail" far more frequently in business than in programming, and the causes of your failure will be far less obvious.

aspir 15y ago

The best business guys I know consistently have one core feature: they love people. I'm not talking about extroversion v. introversion. I'm referring to a passion for and respect of people that shines over their love of technology (it's still strong -- love of people and tech aren't mutually exclusive). Figuring out what customers want, how to reach them, making a good product, etc. It's all rooted in a deep respect for their users, potential users, or even people they've met. This absolutely extends into technical writing. Have you ever read horrible specs? :) They're time wasters, frustrating, and almost insulting. If you care about your audience, and I mean really care, you'll produce damn good specs.

tferris 15y ago

Much easier to move from a tech guy to a business guy. Waht you mentioned isn't real business (functional specs, business specs), rather work for office drone and a must. Business guy means taking risk, being persistant, able to sell and to network. That's it.

spiredigital 15y ago
> Business guy means taking risk, being persistant, able to sell and to network. That's it. Taking risk doesn't make you a good at business. In fact, quite the opposite. Great businessmen are experts at limiting their risk and identifying and acting on high risk-to-reward opportunities. One of the reasons so many businesses fail is the misguided notion that you "must" take a lot of risk to start a business. So people take out a lot of debt / make risky decisions because they believe it's just part of the whole process. I think the best way to start a business and excel is to limit your risk and bootstrap as much as possible. However, I do agree with you on the other three... ;-)
- tferris 15y ago
  I agree with you about limiting risk. But I believe that 'risk' is a highly relative term. Spending three months on a new idea and investing lets say 3,000 USD on this idea is ... 1. for the average employed office drone a huge risk (at least that's how he feels about it=>different value system) 2. for a first time entrepreneur a risk (and objectively higher than for 1 because this guy doesn't have any incom) 3. for a experienced entrepreneur its daily business and no risk at all The principle is just don't go all in but keep on doing and risking.