3 ms·

Exactly. There is no way a significantly smaller connector with way more pins can be as robust as a large one with less pins. It is 100% horseshit. My anecdote

Exactly. There is no way a significantly smaller connector with way more pins can be as robust as a large one with less pins. It is 100% horseshit. My anecdote to add, but this time comparing USB-c power delivery with the lowly ~8mm barrel jack. I recently got a laptop shipped to me by a remote client to use to connect to their network. I pull it out of the box set it up and I notice the usb c power cable has the slightest of kinks... Of course it wouldn't charge. I managed to manipulate the cable, holding it, pressing at various angles long enough to use the device until a replacement PSU was delivered. A barrel jack wouldn't care in the slightest about such kink. And if it didn't work I could get another barrel jack from an electronic parts store the same day, chop off the old one and solder the new one on. Good luck doing that with usb-c. BTW, let me also rant here on the (lack of) usb-c PD compatibility even between devices made by the same manufacturer at the same time. As the above was happening I happened to have another Dell xps laptop sitting on my desk with another usb-C power supply. I thought to myself, I'll just use one PSU for both, right? But before I tried my inate cynism made me think "surely they would not make it so convenient for us" so I googled if this is a good idea. Turns out no. The PSU I had was 90W while the other laptop required 120W. I read stories of it simply not working, but also of broken PSUs. I decided to try anyway and the laptop that needs 120W psu wouldn't even boot with the 90w PSU. I thought maybe it would throttle down the components. Nope, a bios message said, unplug it or else. So yes, I agree the magnificent claims of usb c resolving all sorts of problems are all horseshit. The only real problem they really resolved is that it is reversible. Also the ideas of PD and sending eDP over it were good, just implemented poorly.

linuxdude314 3y ago
Just use the 120w on both… Of course something that needs 120w isn’t going to be able to be be powered by a 90w supply. This is not a problem. Frankly it sounds like you don’t understand how electricity works. I use the same USB-C GaN charger for all of my devices including MacBook Pro and Sony A7RIV. It’s 200W… Just buy a big enough charger and you’re good.
- lxgr 3y ago
  > Of course something that needs 120w isn’t going to be able to be be powered by a 90w supply. That might be true for desktops (and even these could very well throttle their TDP based on available power), but most laptops I know can actually just supply the difference from their battery. I personally just wouldn't get a laptop that can't run on a much more compact lower power wall adapter. Being able to use a tiny 20W power brick in a pinch is great.
lloeki 3y ago
Since 2018 I've charged, operated, and booted a variety of USB-C devices over a variety of USB-C PD power sources. e.g MacBooks of the 60W and 90W variety I've operated on 90, 60, 45, 30, 20, 15, and 5W chargers, car adapters, power banks, displays, powered hubs, or other USB PD devices. Of course on 5W they can't charge while in use (even idling, where they ~maintain charge) and booting requires them to have enough of a battery charge to support the boot power surge, but it has always worked: PD has always negotiated to the best power the charger could do. IOW when manufacturers do their job, it works. > A barrel jack wouldn't care in the slightest about such kink. Oh boy I would disagree. I've had decades of terrible experience with barrel jacks, many of which were completely invisible to the eye. I would not be surprised the small kink would have hidden much worse internal damage or defect. If it failed to negotiate power that's because of an abundance of safety, and I'd rather have that than a fire hazard silently being accepted and internally arcing under load. > The PSU I had was 90W while the other laptop required 120W. What would be the non USB PD alternative? Proprietary PSUs, with either one of: non interchangeable because of a different plug, the same plug but the most power hungry computer still refusing to boot from some proprietary charger id protocol or hardware, the same plug but different voltage and either doesn't work of fries the computer's power circuit (I've had all of those back in the day). So your current USB-C situation isn't any worse than it was before USB PD existed. In fact it's better WRT failure modes because USB-C PD compliance means it will negotiate a safe voltage (including taking the cable into account). Of course if you plug in a non-compliant charger all bets are off but that's no worse than before when there was no power delivery standard whatsoever. That said, as demonstrated by the MacBook example, a manufacturer doing their PD job would not lock the computer out at the bios level - instead waiting to have a safe charge on the battery -, a kind of locking that also happened back in the day of proprietary plugs among the same manufacturer. Therefore I do not see any reason to blame that on USB PD "horseshit" instead of that particular manufacturer.
lxgr 3y ago
> And if it didn't work I could get another barrel jack from an electronic parts store the same day, chop off the old one and solder the new one on. Good luck doing that with usb-c. Most consumers can't solder, and I wouldn't even know where to find an electronic parts store. I can buy a (probably bad, but better than nothing in a pinch) USB-C cable at a convenience store on almost every street corner. I'm more than happy to never have to deal with barrel jacks anymore. The inevitable drawer full of incompatible (at best) or physically compatible, but electrically mismatching barrel jack chargers has plagued too many households. > I decided to try anyway and the laptop that needs 120W psu wouldn't even boot with the 90w PSU. I thought maybe it would throttle down the components. Nope, a bios message said, unplug it or else. Seems like Dell does not care a lot about compatibility then. This is entirely allowed by the spec for good reasons: The alternative would be more barrel jacks, and at least I can use a Dell charger for my phone or laptop. It's definitely not the norm – my laptops charge even from a 5W USB-C charger (albeit very, very slowly). > So yes, I agree the magnificent claims of usb c resolving all sorts of problems are all horseshit. I can definitely see how it doesn't solve all the problems all people have had with connectors, but it's solved all sorts of problems at least for me. I really like it.
- Roark66 3y ago
  >Most consumers can't solder, and I wouldn't even know where to find an electronic parts store. I can buy a (probably bad, but better than nothing in a pinch) USB-C But these PSUs haven't got any receptacle you can plug a replacement USB-c cable. On the brick side the cable goes into the brick. That's it. Fair point about soldering and general rarity of electronic parts stores. If things remained as repairable as they were let's say 30 years ago you wouldn't need to know how to solder, but you would have an electronics store within a short driving distance where they'd solder the barrel jack on for you. A common argument is, but everything is miniaturised now, to which I say, so what? Microscopes and bga rework equipment has been available for even hobbyist for quite some time.

linuxdude314 3y ago

Just use the 120w on both… Of course something that needs 120w isn’t going to be able to be be powered by a 90w supply. This is not a problem. Frankly it sounds like you don’t understand how electricity works. I use the same USB-C GaN charger for all of my devices including MacBook Pro and Sony A7RIV. It’s 200W… Just buy a big enough charger and you’re good.

lxgr 3y ago
> Of course something that needs 120w isn’t going to be able to be be powered by a 90w supply. That might be true for desktops (and even these could very well throttle their TDP based on available power), but most laptops I know can actually just supply the difference from their battery. I personally just wouldn't get a laptop that can't run on a much more compact lower power wall adapter. Being able to use a tiny 20W power brick in a pinch is great.

lloeki 3y ago

Since 2018 I've charged, operated, and booted a variety of USB-C devices over a variety of USB-C PD power sources. e.g MacBooks of the 60W and 90W variety I've operated on 90, 60, 45, 30, 20, 15, and 5W chargers, car adapters, power banks, displays, powered hubs, or other USB PD devices. Of course on 5W they can't charge while in use (even idling, where they ~maintain charge) and booting requires them to have enough of a battery charge to support the boot power surge, but it has always worked: PD has always negotiated to the best power the charger could do. IOW when manufacturers do their job, it works. > A barrel jack wouldn't care in the slightest about such kink. Oh boy I would disagree. I've had decades of terrible experience with barrel jacks, many of which were completely invisible to the eye. I would not be surprised the small kink would have hidden much worse internal damage or defect. If it failed to negotiate power that's because of an abundance of safety, and I'd rather have that than a fire hazard silently being accepted and internally arcing under load. > The PSU I had was 90W while the other laptop required 120W. What would be the non USB PD alternative? Proprietary PSUs, with either one of: non interchangeable because of a different plug, the same plug but the most power hungry computer still refusing to boot from some proprietary charger id protocol or hardware, the same plug but different voltage and either doesn't work of fries the computer's power circuit (I've had all of those back in the day). So your current USB-C situation isn't any worse than it was before USB PD existed. In fact it's better WRT failure modes because USB-C PD compliance means it will negotiate a safe voltage (including taking the cable into account). Of course if you plug in a non-compliant charger all bets are off but that's no worse than before when there was no power delivery standard whatsoever. That said, as demonstrated by the MacBook example, a manufacturer doing their PD job would not lock the computer out at the bios level - instead waiting to have a safe charge on the battery -, a kind of locking that also happened back in the day of proprietary plugs among the same manufacturer. Therefore I do not see any reason to blame that on USB PD "horseshit" instead of that particular manufacturer.

lxgr 3y ago

> And if it didn't work I could get another barrel jack from an electronic parts store the same day, chop off the old one and solder the new one on. Good luck doing that with usb-c. Most consumers can't solder, and I wouldn't even know where to find an electronic parts store. I can buy a (probably bad, but better than nothing in a pinch) USB-C cable at a convenience store on almost every street corner. I'm more than happy to never have to deal with barrel jacks anymore. The inevitable drawer full of incompatible (at best) or physically compatible, but electrically mismatching barrel jack chargers has plagued too many households. > I decided to try anyway and the laptop that needs 120W psu wouldn't even boot with the 90w PSU. I thought maybe it would throttle down the components. Nope, a bios message said, unplug it or else. Seems like Dell does not care a lot about compatibility then. This is entirely allowed by the spec for good reasons: The alternative would be more barrel jacks, and at least I can use a Dell charger for my phone or laptop. It's definitely not the norm – my laptops charge even from a 5W USB-C charger (albeit very, very slowly). > So yes, I agree the magnificent claims of usb c resolving all sorts of problems are all horseshit. I can definitely see how it doesn't solve all the problems all people have had with connectors, but it's solved all sorts of problems at least for me. I really like it.

Roark66 3y ago
>Most consumers can't solder, and I wouldn't even know where to find an electronic parts store. I can buy a (probably bad, but better than nothing in a pinch) USB-C But these PSUs haven't got any receptacle you can plug a replacement USB-c cable. On the brick side the cable goes into the brick. That's it. Fair point about soldering and general rarity of electronic parts stores. If things remained as repairable as they were let's say 30 years ago you wouldn't need to know how to solder, but you would have an electronics store within a short driving distance where they'd solder the barrel jack on for you. A common argument is, but everything is miniaturised now, to which I say, so what? Microscopes and bga rework equipment has been available for even hobbyist for quite some time.