5 ms·

>Well, I mostly agree although I think lethal force is often not in the 'within reason' clause of my stance. For sure, there definitely are situations in which

>Well, I mostly agree although I think lethal force is often not in the 'within reason' clause of my stance. For sure, there definitely are situations in which case it would be absurd to try to justify as within reason. But I would say burglaries, home invasions, muggings, carjackings or any theft that has an implication of violence towards the victim and the like squarely fall into the "within reason" category regardless of the actual amount attempted to be stolen. >Depends on the circumstances but Americans love to jump to talking about lethal force way too fast and it's creepy. Not to mention that it results in, well, a lot of death. I know what you mean, but I think this comes about as a result of Americans being one of the few peoples in the world in the unique position where they have the right to do something about it, and many of them are afraid of this right being curbed or taken away. There are not many countries where your average everyman can just walk into a store to buy a weapon that would actually be reasonable to use in a self defense scenario without harming yourself and then use them to legally protect themselves, their families, their properties. And those are rights sadly that many people in the US campaign against even knowing that once they are gone they are not likely to get them back. In other countries, people do not bring up such topics because they know the reality of having such rights in the future are more or less an impossibility.

zwirbl 3y ago
Or people in other countries are actually glad that the risk of being shot are minimal while still being safe
- ultimafan 3y ago
  Crime exists everywhere on different scales. The genie is out of the bottle so to speak in the US, so gun control on a scale that brings America in line with other countries while also keeping citizen's rights and safety intact is imho not so much possible anymore. Does not feel like there is a good black and white answer to that, I would say the risk of being shot while not committing crimes is quite minimal in the US as well.
  - wisemang 3y ago
    You might say that but it is certainly incorrect compared to other countries. Have a look at mass shooting statistics across countries just as one example. Those victims are not committing crimes.
  - ponector 3y ago
    You could easily find news about a lot of cases when a child shot on playground in US. That is impossible in EU.
Obscurity4340 3y ago
Its weirdly almost on the level of a fetish for some of them in the sense they crave and fantasize about coming out guns a'blazing. You can hear it in their voice, see it in their eyes, and their body language completely radiates their contempt for any world where they are not the main character killing "bad guys"
paulryanrogers 3y ago
> ...a weapon that would actually be reasonable to use in a self defense scenario without harming yourself... Such a tired narrative. Guns are far more likely to kill oneself or a loved one in an accident or suicide than to stop an attacker or robber. If one must rely on such a device for defense then the state has already failed spectacularly. Fixing such situation with guns, or bigger cars, or moving away won't make things better. In fact it entrenches the problems.
- chmod600 3y ago
  "Guns are far more likely to kill oneself or a loved one in an accident or suicide than to stop an attacker or robber." Accident rates are really low[1], part of a 3% "Other" bucket for gun-involved deaths. Suicide is not commonly viewed as a threat to one's safety. You could try to look at it that way but I don't think it's very convincing as you presented it. So if your point is that guns are a net decrease to an individual's safety, you need something more. [1] https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/04/26/what-the-data-says-about-gun-deaths-in-the-u-s/ https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/04/26/what-the-...

zwirbl 3y ago

Or people in other countries are actually glad that the risk of being shot are minimal while still being safe

ultimafan 3y ago
Crime exists everywhere on different scales. The genie is out of the bottle so to speak in the US, so gun control on a scale that brings America in line with other countries while also keeping citizen's rights and safety intact is imho not so much possible anymore. Does not feel like there is a good black and white answer to that, I would say the risk of being shot while not committing crimes is quite minimal in the US as well.
- wisemang 3y ago
  You might say that but it is certainly incorrect compared to other countries. Have a look at mass shooting statistics across countries just as one example. Those victims are not committing crimes.
- ponector 3y ago
  You could easily find news about a lot of cases when a child shot on playground in US. That is impossible in EU.

Obscurity4340 3y ago

Its weirdly almost on the level of a fetish for some of them in the sense they crave and fantasize about coming out guns a'blazing. You can hear it in their voice, see it in their eyes, and their body language completely radiates their contempt for any world where they are not the main character killing "bad guys"

paulryanrogers 3y ago

> ...a weapon that would actually be reasonable to use in a self defense scenario without harming yourself... Such a tired narrative. Guns are far more likely to kill oneself or a loved one in an accident or suicide than to stop an attacker or robber. If one must rely on such a device for defense then the state has already failed spectacularly. Fixing such situation with guns, or bigger cars, or moving away won't make things better. In fact it entrenches the problems.

chmod600 3y ago
"Guns are far more likely to kill oneself or a loved one in an accident or suicide than to stop an attacker or robber." Accident rates are really low[1], part of a 3% "Other" bucket for gun-involved deaths. Suicide is not commonly viewed as a threat to one's safety. You could try to look at it that way but I don't think it's very convincing as you presented it. So if your point is that guns are a net decrease to an individual's safety, you need something more. [1] https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/04/26/what-the-data-says-about-gun-deaths-in-the-u-s/ https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/04/26/what-the-...