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nope. a coup implies something that is outside of normal operation. the board removing the CEO can and will happen.
by x86x87 3y ago
nope. a coup implies something that is outside of normal operation. the board removing the CEO can and will happen.
- tsunamifury 3y agoThe fact that HN engineering grunts have no idea what table stakes are vs titles and authority shows how they aren’t cut out for executive brinksmanship. Sam has superior table stakes.
- gtirloni 3y agoSuch as?
- tsunamifury 3y agoTalent following Financial backing to make a competitor Internal knowledge of roadmap Media focus Alignment with the 2nd most valuable company on the planet. I could go on. I strongly dislike the guy but you need to recognize table stakes even in your enemy. Or you’ll be like Ilya. A naive fool who is gonna get wrecked thinking doing the “right” thing in his own mind will automatically means you win.
- cthalupa 3y agoFrom everything we can see Ilya appears to be a true believer. A true believer is going to act along the axis of their beliefs even if it ultimately results in failure. That doesn't necessarily make them naive or fools - many times they will fully understand that their actions have little or no chance of success. They've just prioritized a different value of you.
- jacquesm 3y agoThat's fair, but by messing this up OpenAI may well end up without any oversight at all. Which isn't the optimum outcome by a long shot and that's what you get for going off half-cocked about a thing like this.
- Sebb767 3y agoAssuming he sees OpenAI spinning out of control either way, it's probably better to have tried to change it and, if it fails, to at least not be part of the problem.
- jacquesm 3y agoI think that could have been done more graciously. And there are other drivers still on the table other than good governance, a good old palace revolution in disguise is definitely not ruled out at this point.
- tsunamifury 3y agoAgree but I see that as potato potahto. Failure by a different name with imaginary wins by the delusional ethicist.
- hansSjoberg 3y agoIlya IS the talent. They were desperate to hire him.
- tsunamifury 3y agoI’ve been in his shoes at a smaller level. Once the company believes they have a stable sellable product they have no interest in any new breakthroughs. His table stakes are gone and Microsoft probably believes gpt4 turbo will be billable for years to come.
- zeroonetwothree 3y agoI don’t think you are using table stakes correctly
- tsunamifury 3y agoReally? Aka Sam has the ability to start a new business and take the contracts with him and Ilya doesn’t. Because that’s table stakes. Exactly.
- cthalupa 3y agoAre you saying that Sam has the ability to generate new contracts when you say take contracts with him, or do you think that somehow the existing contracts with Microsoft and other investors are tied to where he is?
- tsunamifury 3y agoI’d say so. Or bring satya with him.
- nostrademons 3y agoEveryone on that board is financially independent and can do whatever they want. If Sam & Ilya can't get along that basically means there are 2 companies where previously there was OpenAI. (4 if you add Google and Anthropic into the mix; remember that OpenAI was founded because Ilya left Google, and then Anthropic was founded when a bunch of top OpenAI researchers left and started their own company). Ultimately this is good for competition and the gen-AI ecosystem, even if it's catastrophic for OpenAI.
- tsunamifury 3y agoAnyone can do whatever they want, it doesn’t mean it will work out the way they want it too.
- nostrademons 3y ago
- djur 3y agoWhat does any of that have to do with whether it's a "coup" or not? "Coup" has an implication of illegitimacy, but by all accounts the board acted within its authority. It doesn't matter if it was an ill-advised action or if Altman has more leverage here.
- tsunamifury 3y agoLegitimacy is derived from power not from abstraction. Sorry that’s the reality. Rules are an abstraction. Power let’s you do whatever you want including making new rules.
- x86x87 3y agoYeah no. While you may be onto something that still does not make it a coup.
- tsunamifury 3y agoIt’s doesn’t matter what you call it.
- x86x87 3y agoit sort of does. a coup is usually regarded as a bad thing. firing a ceo? not so much. pushing to call it a coup is an attempt to control the narrative.
- jacquesm 3y agoThey acted within their authority but possibly without the support of those that asked them to join in the first place and possibly without sufficient grounds and definitely in a way that wasn't in the interest of OpenAI as far as the story is known today.
- hansSjoberg 3y agoYou're speaking as if Altman and Brockman did Sutskever a favour by "asking him to join". They were practically begging.
- juped 3y agolmao
- cbozeman 3y ago[flagged]
- tsunamifury 3y ago[flagged]
- cbozeman 3y ago> But their ideas on how the world works are just so tiresomely dumb. Yeah, it's really quite difficult to read some of these comments.
- laichzeit0 3y agoI think it’s even simpler than that. They’re engineers, they’re used to reading the “specifications” and then assume that’s how things work. In this case they read whatever a 501(c) non profit is and now can claim they understand exactly how it works because they read the spec.
- usr1106 3y agoI am probably close to an engineer like you describe them. But managers you describe are, to repeat your words, so tiresomely dumb, that they think they could have a sustainable business without such engineers. I have left seemingly successful tech companies and 6 months - 2 years later they were bancrupt. I won't claim just because of me leaving, but because of enough engineers getting fed up with management and their originally great product detoriating quickly. The advantage for me as an engineer is that I valuable creative working environment over getting rich and powerful.
- tsunamifury 3y agoWhat you are describing is real but the difference is between simple disaggregated power vs singular focused power. Over and over singular and focused tends to win in an established game where money is already being made. If you are pre revenue you are all just larping top to bottom. Which is fine I’m there now.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- auggierose 3y ago[flagged]