3 ms·

Not that I’m agreeing with whatever was mentioned in the original comment, but as a semi outsider I feel we are indeed being disingenuous about this - what are

Not that I’m agreeing with whatever was mentioned in the original comment, but as a semi outsider I feel we are indeed being disingenuous about this - what are quantum fields if not ether? I see no difference philosophically. Like the fundamental original reasons why we went to quantum theory itself seems like we made some leaps in hypothesis (charged electron can’t orbit without losing energy, if the universe is filled with an ether then everything will slow down, etc) only to never actually solve that original conundrum ever.

Ono-Sendai 3y ago
Exactly, quantum fields are basically ether by another name. The ether/aether word is just very out of fashion, having been allegedly 'disproved' (not actually) by Einstein and the Michelson–Morley experiment. To be fair, some early conceptions of the ether included it flowing, like a liquid, which we don't think it does currently, and which quantum fields don't do. If you have drunk the special relativity kool-aid, you might also be confused about how the ether/quantum field can be 'real' or something physical, if everything is relative. The Lorentz ether theory viewpoint helps with that confusion though, I think.
pdonis 3y ago
> what are quantum fields if not ether? Individual quantum fields are not Lorentz invariant; they define distributions of matter and energy that look different in different frames. The hypothetical ether of Lorentz ether theory, however, is Lorentz invariant: it is basically the vacuum in EM theory. So it looks the same in all frames. (Yes, LET claims that there is one particular frame that is the "absolute rest frame"--but there is no way of telling which frame it is because the ether looks the same in all frames.)
- ramraj07 3y ago
  Is there anything in quantum fields that directly demand them to not be Lorentz invariant? I feel like these are independent hypotheses..
  - pdonis 3y ago
    > Is there anything in quantum fields that directly demand them to not be Lorentz invariant? To be more precise, any quantum field state except the vacuum will not be Lorentz invariant. That's not something specific to quantum fields: any non-vacuum state in classical special relativity will also not be Lorentz invariant. It will look different in different frames. That's just an obvious consequence of things like length contraction, time dilation, the fact that the energy and momentum of an object are different in different frames, etc.

Ono-Sendai 3y ago

Exactly, quantum fields are basically ether by another name. The ether/aether word is just very out of fashion, having been allegedly 'disproved' (not actually) by Einstein and the Michelson–Morley experiment. To be fair, some early conceptions of the ether included it flowing, like a liquid, which we don't think it does currently, and which quantum fields don't do. If you have drunk the special relativity kool-aid, you might also be confused about how the ether/quantum field can be 'real' or something physical, if everything is relative. The Lorentz ether theory viewpoint helps with that confusion though, I think.

pdonis 3y ago

> what are quantum fields if not ether? Individual quantum fields are not Lorentz invariant; they define distributions of matter and energy that look different in different frames. The hypothetical ether of Lorentz ether theory, however, is Lorentz invariant: it is basically the vacuum in EM theory. So it looks the same in all frames. (Yes, LET claims that there is one particular frame that is the "absolute rest frame"--but there is no way of telling which frame it is because the ether looks the same in all frames.)

ramraj07 3y ago
Is there anything in quantum fields that directly demand them to not be Lorentz invariant? I feel like these are independent hypotheses..
- pdonis 3y ago
  > Is there anything in quantum fields that directly demand them to not be Lorentz invariant? To be more precise, any quantum field state except the vacuum will not be Lorentz invariant. That's not something specific to quantum fields: any non-vacuum state in classical special relativity will also not be Lorentz invariant. It will look different in different frames. That's just an obvious consequence of things like length contraction, time dilation, the fact that the energy and momentum of an object are different in different frames, etc.