4 ms·

Ilya should split off from Altman/Brockman no matter where this lands. I sense an uncrossable chasm between these guys. Anyway I’m with Sutskever, the guy who

Ilya should split off from Altman/Brockman no matter where this lands. I sense an uncrossable chasm between these guys. Anyway I’m with Sutskever, the guy who builds models. Charismatic salesmen are a dime a dozen.

yallneedtoget 3y ago
gpt-4 lead resigned with sam
cedws 3y ago
Charismatic salesmen get the money needed to build the models. Computer scientists are a dime a dozen, universities churn them out every year.
- I_am_tiberius 3y ago
  In this case, it seems that computer scientists are serious about saving humanity, while salespeople just act as if they are doing so publicly.
  - qwytw 3y ago
    > it seems that computer scientists are serious about saving humanity How could they accomplish that without external investment? If the money tap dries up OpenAI will just be left behind.
    - I_am_tiberius 3y ago
      They have external investment!
      - qwytw 3y ago
        From Microsoft? My point is that companies that are serious about making money (even at some indeterminate point in the future) are much better at attracting investment than those which have publicly declared it's not their goals. Nobody is throwing billions around without expecting anything in return.
        I_am_tiberius 3y ago
        Nobody says that investors don't expect anything. However, it's pretty clear that Sam just solely focused on delivering fast in order to keep his advantage. He said he cared about AGI safety publicly, but his style of leading the company makes it clear that he didn't care.
        qwytw 3y ago
        > However, it's pretty clear that Sam just solely focused on delivering fast in order to keep his advantage Yes, I'd assume most investors prefer this type of approach to a more cautious one. Meaning that companies like this are more likely to attract investors and more likely to beat the ones which care about AGI safety to actually building an AGI (whatever is that supposed to mean).
- sainez 3y ago
  Equating Ilya to the average B.S. in Computer Science is like equating Sam to a used car salesman. Neither are true and both were instrumental in the success of OpenAI.
naveen99 3y ago
but he wants to jail the model he builds. As Sam says, he should think more about what he actually wants to do, and then do it. Not go in 2 opposite directions at the same time.
- anonymouskimmer 3y ago
  Not everyone is a goal-oriented monomaniac.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
silenced_trope 3y ago
I'm not so sure. Ilya was apparently instrumental in this, and he didn't have to pursue this? It didn't have to be a "you're with me or you're with them!"
- shrimpx 3y ago
  You're right, the handling of it was brutal.
PheonixPharts 3y ago
Over the years "tech" has been less and less about making things and more and more about making your investors money. Technical talented used to be extremely important in this industry, but it's slowly been being worn away over the years. I still like working in this industry because you can still find interesting problems to solve if you hunt for them, but they're getting harder to find and it increasingly seems like making good technical decisions is penalized. It's sad to see even on HN how many comments are so dismissive of technical skills and ambitions, though I guess we've had more than a generation of engineers join the field because it was the easiest way to make the most money. For a brief moment on Friday I thought "maybe I'm too cynical! Maybe there still are places where tech actually matters." Not surprised it looks like that hope will be inverted almost immediately. I also suspect the takeaway from this will be the final nail in the coffin for any future debates between engineering and people who are only interested in next quarters revenue numbers.
- bigtunacan 3y ago
  What else would you expect? OpenAI spun up "separate" for profit company and recruited a bunch of industry top engineers and scientists with 500k+ salaries where the vast majority of it is tied to equity grants. Most of the employees values do not align with a non profit, even if executives like Ilya do. By firing Altman and trying to remind the world they are a non profit that answers to no one they are also telling their employees to fuck off on all that equity they signed on for.
  - PheonixPharts 3y ago
    I mean you're describing exactly the empty technical world I've been experiencing. So the future of AI is in the hands of leadership that's slick talking but really only there to make a quick buck, built by teams of engineers whose only motivation is getting highly paid. I don't begrudge those that are only in it for the money, but that's not the view of tech that got me excited and into this industry many years ago. The point of my comment is that for a moment I thought maybe I was wrong about my view of tech today, but it's very clear that I'm not. It sounds like the reality is going to end up that the handful of truly technical people in the company will be pushed out, and the vast majority of people even on HN will cheer this.

yallneedtoget 3y ago

gpt-4 lead resigned with sam

cedws 3y ago

Charismatic salesmen get the money needed to build the models. Computer scientists are a dime a dozen, universities churn them out every year.

I_am_tiberius 3y ago
In this case, it seems that computer scientists are serious about saving humanity, while salespeople just act as if they are doing so publicly.
- qwytw 3y ago
  > it seems that computer scientists are serious about saving humanity How could they accomplish that without external investment? If the money tap dries up OpenAI will just be left behind.
  - I_am_tiberius 3y ago
    They have external investment!
    - qwytw 3y ago
      From Microsoft? My point is that companies that are serious about making money (even at some indeterminate point in the future) are much better at attracting investment than those which have publicly declared it's not their goals. Nobody is throwing billions around without expecting anything in return.
      - I_am_tiberius 3y ago
        Nobody says that investors don't expect anything. However, it's pretty clear that Sam just solely focused on delivering fast in order to keep his advantage. He said he cared about AGI safety publicly, but his style of leading the company makes it clear that he didn't care.
        qwytw 3y ago
        > However, it's pretty clear that Sam just solely focused on delivering fast in order to keep his advantage Yes, I'd assume most investors prefer this type of approach to a more cautious one. Meaning that companies like this are more likely to attract investors and more likely to beat the ones which care about AGI safety to actually building an AGI (whatever is that supposed to mean).
sainez 3y ago
Equating Ilya to the average B.S. in Computer Science is like equating Sam to a used car salesman. Neither are true and both were instrumental in the success of OpenAI.

naveen99 3y ago

but he wants to jail the model he builds. As Sam says, he should think more about what he actually wants to do, and then do it. Not go in 2 opposite directions at the same time.

anonymouskimmer 3y ago
Not everyone is a goal-oriented monomaniac.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]

silenced_trope 3y ago

I'm not so sure. Ilya was apparently instrumental in this, and he didn't have to pursue this? It didn't have to be a "you're with me or you're with them!"

shrimpx 3y ago
You're right, the handling of it was brutal.

PheonixPharts 3y ago

Over the years "tech" has been less and less about making things and more and more about making your investors money. Technical talented used to be extremely important in this industry, but it's slowly been being worn away over the years. I still like working in this industry because you can still find interesting problems to solve if you hunt for them, but they're getting harder to find and it increasingly seems like making good technical decisions is penalized. It's sad to see even on HN how many comments are so dismissive of technical skills and ambitions, though I guess we've had more than a generation of engineers join the field because it was the easiest way to make the most money. For a brief moment on Friday I thought "maybe I'm too cynical! Maybe there still are places where tech actually matters." Not surprised it looks like that hope will be inverted almost immediately. I also suspect the takeaway from this will be the final nail in the coffin for any future debates between engineering and people who are only interested in next quarters revenue numbers.

bigtunacan 3y ago
What else would you expect? OpenAI spun up "separate" for profit company and recruited a bunch of industry top engineers and scientists with 500k+ salaries where the vast majority of it is tied to equity grants. Most of the employees values do not align with a non profit, even if executives like Ilya do. By firing Altman and trying to remind the world they are a non profit that answers to no one they are also telling their employees to fuck off on all that equity they signed on for.
- PheonixPharts 3y ago
  I mean you're describing exactly the empty technical world I've been experiencing. So the future of AI is in the hands of leadership that's slick talking but really only there to make a quick buck, built by teams of engineers whose only motivation is getting highly paid. I don't begrudge those that are only in it for the money, but that's not the view of tech that got me excited and into this industry many years ago. The point of my comment is that for a moment I thought maybe I was wrong about my view of tech today, but it's very clear that I'm not. It sounds like the reality is going to end up that the handful of truly technical people in the company will be pushed out, and the vast majority of people even on HN will cheer this.