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> Meanwhile, id under Carmack kept cranking out hit after hit for years, essentially shrugging off Romero's firing like nothing happened. Romero was fired in 1

> Meanwhile, id under Carmack kept cranking out hit after hit for years, essentially shrugging off Romero's firing like nothing happened. Romero was fired in 1996 Until this point, as you mentioned id had created multiple legendary franchises with unique lore, attributes, and each one groundbreaking tech breakthroughs: Commander Keen, Wolfenstein 3D, Doom, Quake. After Romero left, id released: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_id_Software_games https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_id_Software_games * Quake 2 * Quake 3 * Doom 3 * And absolutely nothing else of any value or cultural impact. The only "original" thing was Rage which again had no footprint. There were a lot of technical achievements, yes, but it turns out that memorable games need more than interesting technology. They were well-reviewed for their graphics at a time when that was the biggest thing people expected from new id games - interesting new advances in graphics. For a while, they were THE ones pushing the industry forward until arguably Crysis. But the point is for anyone experiencing or interacting with these games today, Quake is Quake. Nobody remembers 1, 2 or 3 - it's just Quake. Now, was id a successful software company and business? Yes. Would it have become the industry titan and shaped the future all of all videogames based on their post Romero output? Absolutely not. So, while it is definitely justifiable to claim that Carmack achieved more on his own than Romero did, the truth is at least in the video game domain they needed each other to achieve the real greatness that they will be remembered for. It remains to be seen what history will say about ALtman and Sutskever.

mlyle 3y ago
> But the point is for anyone experiencing or interacting with these games today, Quake is Quake. Nobody remembers 1, 2 or 3 - it's just Quake. Quake 3 was unquestionably the pinnacle, the real beginning of esports, and enormously influential on shooter design to this day.
- deanCommie 3y ago
  Quake 3 came out 1 week after Unreal Tournament did in 1999. Quake 3 had a better engine, but Unreal Touranment had more creative weapons, sound cues, and level design. (Assault mode!) Quake 3 had better balanced levels for purely deathmatch, which turned out to be the part that was the purest distillment of what people would want to play. So, yes, I do think you're right that I am underselling Quake 3. I was always a UT fan from day 1, and never understood why Quake 3 took over. But that's personal preference, and I undervalue it's impact to the industry. It also shows I guess that since Romero previously did all the level designs, Carmack was able to replace him. But Romero was never able to replace Carmack.

mlyle 3y ago

> But the point is for anyone experiencing or interacting with these games today, Quake is Quake. Nobody remembers 1, 2 or 3 - it's just Quake. Quake 3 was unquestionably the pinnacle, the real beginning of esports, and enormously influential on shooter design to this day.

deanCommie 3y ago
Quake 3 came out 1 week after Unreal Tournament did in 1999. Quake 3 had a better engine, but Unreal Touranment had more creative weapons, sound cues, and level design. (Assault mode!) Quake 3 had better balanced levels for purely deathmatch, which turned out to be the part that was the purest distillment of what people would want to play. So, yes, I do think you're right that I am underselling Quake 3. I was always a UT fan from day 1, and never understood why Quake 3 took over. But that's personal preference, and I undervalue it's impact to the industry. It also shows I guess that since Romero previously did all the level designs, Carmack was able to replace him. But Romero was never able to replace Carmack.