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While technically true, in practicality, they did give money to the non-profit. The even signed an agreement stating that any investments should be considered m

While technically true, in practicality, they did give money to the non-profit. The even signed an agreement stating that any investments should be considered more as donations, because the for-profit subsidiary's operating agreement is such that the charter and mission of the non-profit are the primary duty of the for-profit, not making money. This is explicitly called out in the agreement that all investors in and employees of the for-profit must sign. LLCs can be structured so that they are beholden to a different goal than the financial enrichment of their shareholders. https://openai.com/our-structure https://openai.com/our-structure

s1artibartfast 3y ago
I don't dispute that they say that at all. Therein lies the tension -having multiple goals. The goal is to uphold the mission, and also to make a profit, and the mission comes first. Im not saying one party is right or wrong, just pointing out that there is bound to be conflict when you give employees a bunch of profit based stock rewards, Bring in in 11B in VC investment looking for returns, and then have external oversight with all the control setting the balance between profit and mission. The disclaimer says "It would be wise to see the the investment in OpenAI Global in the spirit of a donation, with the understanding that it may be difficult to know what role money will play in a post-AGI world" That doesnt mean investors and employees wont want money, and few will be scared off by owning a company so wildly successful that it ushers in a post scarcity world. You have partners and employees that want to make profit, and that is fundamental to why some of them are there, especially Microsoft. The expectation of possible profits are clear, because that is why the company exists, and why microsoft has a deal where they get 75% of profit until they recoup their 11 Billion investment. I read the returns are capped at 100X investment, so if holds true, Microsoft returns are capped at 1.1 Trillion dollars.
- himaraya 3y ago
  100x first-round investment and lower multiples for subsequent rounds, so much less than $1T.
  - s1artibartfast 3y ago
    what do you mean? Are you saying that is part of the article of incorporation for for-profit Open AI?
    - himaraya 3y ago
      > Returns for our first round of investors are capped at 100x their investment (commensurate with the risks in front of us), and we expect this multiple to be lower for future rounds as we make further progress. https://openai.com/blog/openai-lp https://openai.com/blog/openai-lp
      - s1artibartfast 3y ago
        So microsoft got in at round 1, and then round 2 for some nebulous multiple which may or may not be less than than. These weasel words are not proof of anything
        himaraya 3y ago
        Microsoft's first-round investment totals $1bn at most. Nothing public substantiates a profit cap of $1tn.
        s1artibartfast 3y ago
        1t would be the 100x times 10B. I guess in absence of public information, we could assume anything. Default terms of unlimited, 100x for 1T or some arbitrarily lower number

s1artibartfast 3y ago

I don't dispute that they say that at all. Therein lies the tension -having multiple goals. The goal is to uphold the mission, and also to make a profit, and the mission comes first. Im not saying one party is right or wrong, just pointing out that there is bound to be conflict when you give employees a bunch of profit based stock rewards, Bring in in 11B in VC investment looking for returns, and then have external oversight with all the control setting the balance between profit and mission. The disclaimer says "It would be wise to see the the investment in OpenAI Global in the spirit of a donation, with the understanding that it may be difficult to know what role money will play in a post-AGI world" That doesnt mean investors and employees wont want money, and few will be scared off by owning a company so wildly successful that it ushers in a post scarcity world. You have partners and employees that want to make profit, and that is fundamental to why some of them are there, especially Microsoft. The expectation of possible profits are clear, because that is why the company exists, and why microsoft has a deal where they get 75% of profit until they recoup their 11 Billion investment. I read the returns are capped at 100X investment, so if holds true, Microsoft returns are capped at 1.1 Trillion dollars.

himaraya 3y ago
100x first-round investment and lower multiples for subsequent rounds, so much less than $1T.
- s1artibartfast 3y ago
  what do you mean? Are you saying that is part of the article of incorporation for for-profit Open AI?
  - himaraya 3y ago
    > Returns for our first round of investors are capped at 100x their investment (commensurate with the risks in front of us), and we expect this multiple to be lower for future rounds as we make further progress. https://openai.com/blog/openai-lp https://openai.com/blog/openai-lp
    - s1artibartfast 3y ago
      So microsoft got in at round 1, and then round 2 for some nebulous multiple which may or may not be less than than. These weasel words are not proof of anything
      - himaraya 3y ago
        Microsoft's first-round investment totals $1bn at most. Nothing public substantiates a profit cap of $1tn.
        s1artibartfast 3y ago
        1t would be the 100x times 10B. I guess in absence of public information, we could assume anything. Default terms of unlimited, 100x for 1T or some arbitrarily lower number