4 ms·

I don't know gdb very well, but I did get to chat with him a bit about what he was working on around the time of this article, which was mostly infrastructure g

by sctb 3y ago

I don't know gdb very well, but I did get to chat with him a bit about what he was working on around the time of this article, which was mostly infrastructure grunt work, removing obstacles and procedural rough edges—basically anything to make the researchers and engineers as happy and productive as possible. It is so, so easy to undervalue that kind of work done by a totally brilliant and capable technologist. For an early stage startup it's gold. For a later stage startup it's gold.

avindroth 3y ago
Why do you think people undervalue it? Very curious.
- sctb 3y ago
  It's the impression I got from "who have not done any transformer research", as well as the fact that sama wrote this article.
- d3ckard 3y ago
  You can’t demo it and sell it.
swatcoder 3y ago
It's gold, but it's not singular. There are many people who have been doing that work for decades and are able to step into the role. The same can't be said for the R&D work he's supporting, as comparatively few have deep insight or experience for working with the innovative tech yet. So while Greg's work would have been extremely valuable, it's value is on a lesser order of magnitude than many of the other researchers and engineers who OpenAI had collected into its ranks. More essential innovative value will be lost to the bleed of loyalists and startup bettors who will peel off from those ranks.
- sctb 3y ago
  I'm suggesting that there are not many people who have been doing that work, at least not at the same level or to the same effect. He did it with Stripe and OpenAI, back to back.
- Nidhug 3y ago
  I think that there is some kind of elitism around AI researchers. Yes they are very valuable, but someone helping everyone else be more productive is absolutely critical.
  - swatcoder 3y ago
    Having a car might be critical and acquiring a car might be expensive, but there are a lot of them and they are ultimately replaceable. If yours is lost and you still have cash, you can generally go find a new one the same day and borrow a ride from someone if you really need to. That's not necessarily true for (say) the rare high-end graphics board you use for running local inferences. It's also expensive -- even less expensive than the car -- but replacing it can be a bigger deal and cause a complete interruption. There are countless experienced late-career generalists who can keep projects moving by contributing to critical, smart support. I'm one of them. We're extremely valuable indeed. But there really are far fewer people who were ahead of the curve and years-deep into the AI research central to OpenAI's entire existence. Those people are beyond critical, they're essential. That doesn't make them better people, or smarter people, or in any other way elite. It just means that in the context of OpenAI those people are much harder to come by and can be much more disruptive when lost.
    - Nidhug 3y ago
      Apologies, I'm afraid I wasn't very awake reading your comment. You're right, my issue is more about the dismissive attitude that I often see: for some reason I mistook you as someone having that attitude as well.
mnky9800n 3y ago
That's the job of any good professor for their PhDs and postdocs.

by sctb 3y ago

avindroth 3y ago

Why do you think people undervalue it? Very curious.

sctb 3y ago
It's the impression I got from "who have not done any transformer research", as well as the fact that sama wrote this article.
d3ckard 3y ago
You can’t demo it and sell it.

swatcoder 3y ago

It's gold, but it's not singular. There are many people who have been doing that work for decades and are able to step into the role. The same can't be said for the R&D work he's supporting, as comparatively few have deep insight or experience for working with the innovative tech yet. So while Greg's work would have been extremely valuable, it's value is on a lesser order of magnitude than many of the other researchers and engineers who OpenAI had collected into its ranks. More essential innovative value will be lost to the bleed of loyalists and startup bettors who will peel off from those ranks.

sctb 3y ago
I'm suggesting that there are not many people who have been doing that work, at least not at the same level or to the same effect. He did it with Stripe and OpenAI, back to back.
Nidhug 3y ago
I think that there is some kind of elitism around AI researchers. Yes they are very valuable, but someone helping everyone else be more productive is absolutely critical.
- swatcoder 3y ago
  Having a car might be critical and acquiring a car might be expensive, but there are a lot of them and they are ultimately replaceable. If yours is lost and you still have cash, you can generally go find a new one the same day and borrow a ride from someone if you really need to. That's not necessarily true for (say) the rare high-end graphics board you use for running local inferences. It's also expensive -- even less expensive than the car -- but replacing it can be a bigger deal and cause a complete interruption. There are countless experienced late-career generalists who can keep projects moving by contributing to critical, smart support. I'm one of them. We're extremely valuable indeed. But there really are far fewer people who were ahead of the curve and years-deep into the AI research central to OpenAI's entire existence. Those people are beyond critical, they're essential. That doesn't make them better people, or smarter people, or in any other way elite. It just means that in the context of OpenAI those people are much harder to come by and can be much more disruptive when lost.
  - Nidhug 3y ago
    Apologies, I'm afraid I wasn't very awake reading your comment. You're right, my issue is more about the dismissive attitude that I often see: for some reason I mistook you as someone having that attitude as well.

mnky9800n 3y ago

That's the job of any good professor for their PhDs and postdocs.