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Sounds like they were the perfect fit in the pre GPT-3, ChatGPT, DALL-E world Honestly I don’t understand the drama around 2 executives who have not done any t

by shmatt 3y ago

Sounds like they were the perfect fit in the pre GPT-3, ChatGPT, DALL-E world Honestly I don’t understand the drama around 2 executives who have not done any transformer research or whatever will come after transformers The GenAI world will be fine without the ceo of cryptoballs or whatever his other company is

polygamous_bat 3y ago
> whatever will come after transformers I feel like this is a point that is not being talked about enough. Yes, OpenAI gave us GPT and DALL-E. But had sama and gdb remained there, would we have gotten anything new that is as groundbreaking as the original GPT and DALL-E, or would we have continued getting GPT-12 and DALL-E-19? Sure, iPhone 15 sells, but some may say Apple has stagnated since iPhone was released.
- AussieWog93 3y ago
  But now, are we even going to get GPT-4 or GPT-5 with the same level of polish that sama would have put into it? I'd argue right now that we're at the "iPhone 3G" point on the technology curve, with significant improvements to come over the next few years as the tech gets polished.
- dlivingston 3y ago
  Sorry to nitpick, but -- OpenAI was releasing innovations in the GenAI space at a breakneck pace. Remember, GPT-1 didn't change the world, it was GPT-3.5/4 from earlier this year. OpenAI was at peak innovation when sama and gdb left. And folks used to say Apple was stagnant, but after Apple Silicon completely upended the personal computer world (along with some other things) the dissidents have been mostly silent.
  - davidy123 3y ago
    Apple Silicon made x86 silicon look bad, but what has it really upended? Macs are taking over more of the personal computer market, but hard to say what the factor is there. I think it's mostly network effects, partially due to their shameless proprietary approach. PCs, Apple or other, are kinda generally good, no matter what the price or combo, and disappearing at the same time, a lot can be done with just a browser on any foundation. Apple seems to be years behind or nonexistent where things are really changing, AI and cloud.
  - bmitc 3y ago
    > Apple Silicon completely upended the personal computer world How did it upend the personal computer world? Apple's chip developments are an amazing technological achievement, but they don't have anything innovative to put them in. Apple slaps them in grossly thermally limited form factors, where the chips can't operate anywhere close to their capability. It's kind of a silly exercise, in my opinion. At the end of the day, Apple has made the same computers, phones, and tablets for the past 10 years. I'm not sure where the innovation is.
    - Angostura 3y ago
      > Apple slaps them in grossly thermally limited form factors, where the chips can't operate anywhere close to their capability. Checks temp of iMac, while encoding video and maxing all cores.... nope.
    - dereg 3y ago
      Saying the chips haven't enabled any sort of innovative products it's like driving down the interstate wearing goggles, err, blinders. Let's check back in four months.
      - bmitc 3y ago
        What are they then? Have I missed something?
        dereg 3y ago
        You have! The Apple Vision Pro is slated to be released by the March/April 2024. The device has only been made possible by the steady march of Apple Silicon.
        bmitc 3y ago
        Oh, right. VR, that everlasting elixir of promise of hype and transformation. And I guess we're going to ignore that several VR sets already exist.
        3y ago
- gdhkgdhkvff 3y ago
  From the various sources it appears that they’re being fired because they were trying to push the envelope TOO HARD, not the other way around. And, outside of the Cynicism-Is-Intelligence hackernews crowd, basically everyone has been fawning over the breakneck speed of progress coming out of OpenAI, even at the recent OpenAI devdays.
sctb 3y ago
I don't know gdb very well, but I did get to chat with him a bit about what he was working on around the time of this article, which was mostly infrastructure grunt work, removing obstacles and procedural rough edges—basically anything to make the researchers and engineers as happy and productive as possible. It is so, so easy to undervalue that kind of work done by a totally brilliant and capable technologist. For an early stage startup it's gold. For a later stage startup it's gold.
- avindroth 3y ago
  Why do you think people undervalue it? Very curious.
  - sctb 3y ago
    It's the impression I got from "who have not done any transformer research", as well as the fact that sama wrote this article.
  - d3ckard 3y ago
    You can’t demo it and sell it.
- swatcoder 3y ago
  It's gold, but it's not singular. There are many people who have been doing that work for decades and are able to step into the role. The same can't be said for the R&D work he's supporting, as comparatively few have deep insight or experience for working with the innovative tech yet. So while Greg's work would have been extremely valuable, it's value is on a lesser order of magnitude than many of the other researchers and engineers who OpenAI had collected into its ranks. More essential innovative value will be lost to the bleed of loyalists and startup bettors who will peel off from those ranks.
  - sctb 3y ago
    I'm suggesting that there are not many people who have been doing that work, at least not at the same level or to the same effect. He did it with Stripe and OpenAI, back to back.
bmitc 3y ago
I don't even know how people like this get valued so much. Why do people treat Silicon Valley "entrepreneurs" and investors as if they're made out of some sort of intellectual adamantium? Aren't they, generally speaking, just people looking to make a name and buck for themselves, primarily driven by ego rather than intellectual or philosophical pursuits? Most of them got lucky with some relatively dumb or straightforward product in the middle of a bubble and are not responsible for some major leap forward in technology.
parentheses 3y ago
I think it's fair to say that OpenAI retains its AI talent so the loss of the founding team may not result in lost research progress. The founding team does however bring tactical experience that is (maybe) unmatched. They also have experience solving problems that turn cutting edge AI models into usable products. It's easy to devalue non research contributions, but they have legitimate value and are instrumental in OpenAIs success.

by shmatt 3y ago

polygamous_bat 3y ago

> whatever will come after transformers I feel like this is a point that is not being talked about enough. Yes, OpenAI gave us GPT and DALL-E. But had sama and gdb remained there, would we have gotten anything new that is as groundbreaking as the original GPT and DALL-E, or would we have continued getting GPT-12 and DALL-E-19? Sure, iPhone 15 sells, but some may say Apple has stagnated since iPhone was released.

AussieWog93 3y ago
But now, are we even going to get GPT-4 or GPT-5 with the same level of polish that sama would have put into it? I'd argue right now that we're at the "iPhone 3G" point on the technology curve, with significant improvements to come over the next few years as the tech gets polished.
dlivingston 3y ago
Sorry to nitpick, but -- OpenAI was releasing innovations in the GenAI space at a breakneck pace. Remember, GPT-1 didn't change the world, it was GPT-3.5/4 from earlier this year. OpenAI was at peak innovation when sama and gdb left. And folks used to say Apple was stagnant, but after Apple Silicon completely upended the personal computer world (along with some other things) the dissidents have been mostly silent.
- davidy123 3y ago
  Apple Silicon made x86 silicon look bad, but what has it really upended? Macs are taking over more of the personal computer market, but hard to say what the factor is there. I think it's mostly network effects, partially due to their shameless proprietary approach. PCs, Apple or other, are kinda generally good, no matter what the price or combo, and disappearing at the same time, a lot can be done with just a browser on any foundation. Apple seems to be years behind or nonexistent where things are really changing, AI and cloud.
- bmitc 3y ago
  > Apple Silicon completely upended the personal computer world How did it upend the personal computer world? Apple's chip developments are an amazing technological achievement, but they don't have anything innovative to put them in. Apple slaps them in grossly thermally limited form factors, where the chips can't operate anywhere close to their capability. It's kind of a silly exercise, in my opinion. At the end of the day, Apple has made the same computers, phones, and tablets for the past 10 years. I'm not sure where the innovation is.
  - Angostura 3y ago
    > Apple slaps them in grossly thermally limited form factors, where the chips can't operate anywhere close to their capability. Checks temp of iMac, while encoding video and maxing all cores.... nope.
  - dereg 3y ago
    Saying the chips haven't enabled any sort of innovative products it's like driving down the interstate wearing goggles, err, blinders. Let's check back in four months.
    - bmitc 3y ago
      What are they then? Have I missed something?
      - dereg 3y ago
        You have! The Apple Vision Pro is slated to be released by the March/April 2024. The device has only been made possible by the steady march of Apple Silicon.
        bmitc 3y ago
        Oh, right. VR, that everlasting elixir of promise of hype and transformation. And I guess we're going to ignore that several VR sets already exist.
        3y ago
gdhkgdhkvff 3y ago
From the various sources it appears that they’re being fired because they were trying to push the envelope TOO HARD, not the other way around. And, outside of the Cynicism-Is-Intelligence hackernews crowd, basically everyone has been fawning over the breakneck speed of progress coming out of OpenAI, even at the recent OpenAI devdays.

sctb 3y ago

I don't know gdb very well, but I did get to chat with him a bit about what he was working on around the time of this article, which was mostly infrastructure grunt work, removing obstacles and procedural rough edges—basically anything to make the researchers and engineers as happy and productive as possible. It is so, so easy to undervalue that kind of work done by a totally brilliant and capable technologist. For an early stage startup it's gold. For a later stage startup it's gold.

avindroth 3y ago
Why do you think people undervalue it? Very curious.
- sctb 3y ago
  It's the impression I got from "who have not done any transformer research", as well as the fact that sama wrote this article.
- d3ckard 3y ago
  You can’t demo it and sell it.
swatcoder 3y ago
It's gold, but it's not singular. There are many people who have been doing that work for decades and are able to step into the role. The same can't be said for the R&D work he's supporting, as comparatively few have deep insight or experience for working with the innovative tech yet. So while Greg's work would have been extremely valuable, it's value is on a lesser order of magnitude than many of the other researchers and engineers who OpenAI had collected into its ranks. More essential innovative value will be lost to the bleed of loyalists and startup bettors who will peel off from those ranks.
- sctb 3y ago
  I'm suggesting that there are not many people who have been doing that work, at least not at the same level or to the same effect. He did it with Stripe and OpenAI, back to back.

bmitc 3y ago

I don't even know how people like this get valued so much. Why do people treat Silicon Valley "entrepreneurs" and investors as if they're made out of some sort of intellectual adamantium? Aren't they, generally speaking, just people looking to make a name and buck for themselves, primarily driven by ego rather than intellectual or philosophical pursuits? Most of them got lucky with some relatively dumb or straightforward product in the middle of a bubble and are not responsible for some major leap forward in technology.

parentheses 3y ago

I think it's fair to say that OpenAI retains its AI talent so the loss of the founding team may not result in lost research progress. The founding team does however bring tactical experience that is (maybe) unmatched. They also have experience solving problems that turn cutting edge AI models into usable products. It's easy to devalue non research contributions, but they have legitimate value and are instrumental in OpenAIs success.